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Veselin Topalov vs Antonio Antunes
Candas (1992), Candas ESP
Sicilian Defense: Old Sicilian. Open (B32)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <Jul-05-04 Premium Chessgames Member acirce: I assume Antunes is not the writer.

Nov-26-15 Premium Chessgames Member Phony Benoni: Well, it's probably a king move. >

Wow, almost 11 and a half years between kibitzes on a game with multiple kibitz pages! Who da thunk it?? Not me.

Nov-26-15  roentgenium: I managed to get the first move by following the motto of Sherlock Holmes: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!". It was also nice to see how the threat of stalemate was used to ensure the draw, and to read <Phony Benoni>'s explanation on this endgame. This is one puzzle I really hope I can remember for future chess games!
Nov-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: Side puzzle.

Assume white has an additional pawn on f3 at move 65.


click for larger view

Figure out why white cannot still play 65 Kg6 and draw and provide the only move that draws.

Nov-26-15  wooden nickel: Black's passed pawn is winning the race to promotion by 1 move. Knowing the theory of this type of endgame <a pawn of the ranks a-, c-, f or h in the second last row must be maintained to hold a draw>, White has to clear the way for his pawn and can still mess up 65.Ke6??... instead 65.Kg6 saves the day.
Nov-26-15  diagonalley: <roentgenium> ... ditto! 65.K-N6 hangs on for the draw... nice end-game study... (ps. "roentgenium" sounds like some kinda radioactive element!?!)
Nov-26-15  wooden nickel: <Jimfromprovidence: Side puzzle. Assume white has an additional pawn on f3 at move 65> Good point, doesn't 65.Ke4 draw now?
Nov-26-15  Pawn Slayer: It would be nice if the title said "white to play and draw". I spent ages trying to find a winning line for white before concluding that there wasn't one and the best he had was Kg6 and a draw by stalemate.

If it had made it clear it was a drawing line we were seeking I'd have solved it in 2 seconds flat.

Nov-26-15  amurph64: Very Clever.
Nov-26-15  morfishine: <Pawn Slayer><...If it had made it clear it was a drawing line we were seeking I'd have solved it in 2 seconds flat> 'Pattern recognition' is a part of problem solving. Giving too many clues negates the opportunity to use one's own head
Nov-26-15  goodevans: Wouldn't it be nice if in a game situation it would be ok to have something to tell you "you ain't gonna win this one buddy so start looking for a draw".

I find it hard to believe that anyone so good as to be able to solve this as a "white to play and draw" in 2 seconds flat wouldn't also be good enough to realise white doesn't have a win here.

Nov-26-15  dfcx: White's best outcome is to draw the game after losing the race to prompt the pawn.

65.Kg6 d3 66.f5 d2 67.f6 d1=Q 68.f7 and black can't win the end position like the following with black to play,


click for larger view

If white had an extra pawn then black can take f7 pawn winning the game.

Nov-26-15  saturn2: I could not solve it but I finally understand now why Kg6 works and Ke6 does not.
Nov-26-15  Marmot PFL: Is this a holiday joke? Just looks like a dead drawn ending.
Nov-26-15  Ratt Boy: <Penguincw: Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans! Enjoy the day off. Also be thankful that you get the Canadian Thanksgiving off, but Canadians don't get the American thanksgiving off.>

Thanks, butt though Canadian Thanksgiving does fall on US's Columbus Day, most Americans don't get that day off. It's a federal, postal, and bank holiday, butt most of us don't work for the government, USPS, or banks.

Nov-26-15  kubbybulin: Is it Monday already? That was some pretty good booze...why am I not hung over? Looks like the old bishop pawn draw to me.
Nov-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <wooden nickel> <Good point, doesn't 65.Ke4 draw now?> Yes

With the extra pawn if white plays 65 Kg6 the position ends up something like this with black to play. The extra pawn takes away the stalemate possibility.


click for larger view

If white tries to get his king to f8 to protect the f7 pawn, like in the position below, black now has time to move his king to d6 to win the f7 pawn if the king flees or force mate if the f3 pawn advances.


click for larger view

Nov-26-15  Lambda: It's a bit of an oversimplification to call the position with the extra f3 pawn a 'draw'. Sure, it's a tablebase draw, but the queen+pawn vs queen ending you get isn't trivial to hold.
Nov-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <Marmot PFL: Is this a holiday joke? Just looks like a dead drawn ending.>

It is. You are well-Atuned to the position :)

Nov-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: < Ratt Boy: <Penguincw: Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans! Enjoy the day off. Also be thankful that you get the Canadian Thanksgiving off, but Canadians don't get the American thanksgiving off.>

Thanks, butt though Canadian Thanksgiving does fall on US's Columbus Day, most Americans don't get that day off. It's a federal, postal, and bank holiday, butt most of us don't work for the government, USPS, or banks. >

Ah, I see. Thank you.

As for getting today off, I wonder if some people get the entire day off, or just the morning and afternoon, while rushing to work in the evening to prepare for the next day...

Nov-26-15  PJs Studio: Topolov's game is complete! No holes here.
Nov-26-15  Rama: When every move is losing, try to find a swindle. White's pawn can reach f7 and if the K can get to g7 the lone black Queen can only check or stalemate. Thus 65. Kg6 jumped right out at me.
Nov-26-15  Pawn Slayer: <goodevans> "I find it hard to believe that anyone so good as to be able to solve this as a "white to play and draw" in 2 seconds flat wouldn't also be good enough to realise white doesn't have a win here".

I looked at the position and thought immediately that it was a dead draw because black's pawn might win the queening race, but white's pawn is a B pawn (a R pawn would also work) and once it gets to the 7th rank, the queen cannot win. That's standard theory; if you've played at a fairly high level, you have to know this. I found it extremely hard to believe that there could be a win for white, but tried to find one. I failed.

If I'd opened up the link to the kibitzing page, I'd have seen 1/2-1/2, but I didn't. Mea culpa.

Nov-26-15  CHESSTTCAMPS: White, on the move, is losing a race for pawn promotion because the white king must spend a tempo to get out of the way of the pawn it escorts. Only one correct king move among the seven available wins the top prize of 1/2 point. Among the blunders, an attempt to finesse a tempo with 65.Ke4(??) loses after 65... Kc4 66.f5 d3 67.f6 d2 68.f7 d1=Q 69.f8=Q Qd2+ skewers the white queen next move. A different approach, 65.Ke6?? goes wrong after d3 66.f5 d2 67.f6 d1=Q 68.f7 Qd6+ separates the king from the pawn it needs to defend. The only way is 65.Kg6 e3 66.f5 e2 67.f6 e1=Q 68.f7 with a book draw, e.g. Qd6+ 69.Kg7 Ke7 70.Kg8 Qg5+ 71.Kh7 Qf6 72.Kg8 Qg6+ 73.Kh8 allows no chance for black to make progress.
Nov-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson:


click for larger view

This exact same position with White to move was reached in Vassily Orlov - Daniel Fridman, Alma-Ata 1991.

http://www.365chess.com/game.php?gi...

White played 85.Kg6 and the game was drawn.

----

Jimfromprovidence added a side puzzle by adding an extra pawn however from here...


click for larger view

...there are an instructive couple of points.

If we move the Black pawn one file to left with White to move it is still a draw.

However, if we move the Black pawn two files to the left...


click for larger view

...and with White to play Black wins!

And if from the original diagram we move the Black pawn three file to the left...


click for larger view

White to play and Black still wins.

Dec-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: I used this game and coincidence mentioned as a main theme id this latest effort.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/chess-blo...

Nice idea for Christmas there.

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