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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-22-19
 | | al wazir: But after <21. Ke2 Qd3+ 22. Kf3 Ne1+ 23. Kg3 Qd5+> white has 24. f4. Where's the win? |
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| Apr-22-19 | | ChessHigherCat: <kereru: Check out the sequence from 48:55 in the German film ""Schwarz und Weiß wie Tage und Nächte" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYq... Good find, as Everett said, but that link's been terminated. Here's a new one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjA...
(German)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54...
(Spanish)
It seems a lot better done than most chess movies. At least there was someone on the set who knew how to move the pieces! |
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Apr-22-19
| | al wazir: Ah, I see:
21. Ke2 Bd3+ 22. Kf3 (23. Kd2 Bf4+ 25. Ke2 Qd3#) Qf6+ 23. Kg3 Qg5+ 24. Kh3 (24. Kf3 Ne1#) Bf5+ 25. g4 Qxg4#. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | stst: very slick Q move+sac at the same time!! |
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| Apr-22-19 | | Walter Glattke: AlWazir, also wins in move 26: 21.Ke2 Bd3+ 22.Kf3 Ne1+ 23.Kg4 (Kg3 not with Qd6) 23.-Qg6+ 24.Kf4 Qg5# or 24. Kh4 Qg5+ 25.Kh3 Bf5+ 26.g4 Qxg4+ (or 24.-Bf5!? 25.Qg8/h8+) or 24.Kh3 Bf5+ mate next. (g4 Qxg4/Kh4 Qg4/Qg5) |
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| Apr-22-19 | | hdcc: It's a Queen sac, Jim, but not as we know it.
I had to spend a long time looking at this to spot the removal of the guard. A good workout for the neurons; most unlike the usual bleedingly obvious Monday fare. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | schachfuchs: So, the final (fatal) mistake was 22.Qxb7 ?
Because 22.Bc4 Qc6 23.Nc3 Qxc4 24.Qd8 Nb3+ 25.Kd1 Qg4+ 26.Ne2 Qe4 27.Ke1 yields =0.00 ? |
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Apr-22-19
 | | Diocletian: This sure looks familiar. I encountered this exact position within the last two weeks, probably here. |
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Apr-22-19
| | Diocletian: Yeah, this is the first of Planinc's "notable games," and I looked at it on his birthday four days ago. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | schachfuchs: btw: Great victory of our world champion MC at the GRENKE Chess Classic yesterday in a R+B vs. N+B endgame
https://chess24.com/de/watch/live-t... |
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| Apr-22-19 | | morfishine: Well known brilliancy by one of my favorite players! Bravo Planinc! |
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Apr-22-19
 | | OhioChessFan: Not sure why, but the solution is much easier to see if you play through the game and notice Black playing Na1. Surely Vaganian had to wonder what was up with that. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | Rustaveli: This is one of the most spectacular combinations I've ever seen on board. Albin Planinc was definitely an accomplished master of attack! |
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| Apr-22-19 | | saturn2: The same player who impressed yesterday with strong tactics is outplayed like a schoolboy today. |
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Apr-22-19
 | | gawain: A spectacular finish.
I was congratulating myself on how quickly I'd spotted the solution--then I noticed phat I'd solved (and kibitzed about) this puzzle in 2015. Oh well. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | ChessHigherCat: < saturn2: The same player who impressed yesterday with strong tactics is outplayed like a schoolboy today.> Don't you know this formula:
You win <sum>
You lose <sum> |
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Apr-22-19
 | | wood n tempo: I got this, although my move was 22...Qc6+, rather than 22...Qc7+. Sometimes I wonder if GMs choose one move other another, (even though both are functionally similar), because of tactics which could be involved, but might not be. Can anyone tell me, if one of these moves might be 'safer', or more tactical? |
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Apr-22-19
 | | scormus: <OCF> Agreed, though I'm too lazy to play the moves through from the start (and probably accidentally see tbe solution if I did). But yes, W should have smelled a rat when B played Na1. I remember this game at the time when I was a student, one of the guys in the club was was raving about Planinc's amazing R- sac. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | Patriot: <wood n tempo> There doesn't seem to be a difference here. I think a GM would consider both. |
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Apr-22-19
 | | PawnSac: < OhioChessFan: Not sure why, but the solution is much easier to see if you play through the game and notice Black playing Na1. Surely Vaganian had to wonder what was up with that. > well because you ask yourself "why did he put the knight there?" When i first looked at the position without playing thru it my brain just assumed black captured the rook there with a fork and now white was trying to trap the knight. I think Vaganian saw the threat and assumed he could guard with Qxb7 BUT had a blind spot not catching the deflection idea. |
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Apr-22-19
| | PawnSac: < Cheapo by the Dozen: The hardest part is figuring out if there's an actual mate, > only when solving a "puzzle"
< or whether Black should be content with the queen > You wouldn't be? Hey, i'm somewhat pragmatic in the real game..
I'd find a happy compromise. I'd take the queen first THEN keep looking
for a mate! LOL
< which isn't all THAT big a material advantage > well, after 23.Kd2 Qxb7 White has a rook and 2 pawns to black's queen.
BUT there is still plenty of room for him to make mistakes, and even
at best play will drop more material. Here is the position: 
click for larger viewStockfish evals this -17.15 @ 39 ply with 24.Bc4 . After 8 moves down the line it
looks like this:
click for larger viewWhite must determine how to proceed. Stockfish abandons g2 (presumably because the
consequence for trying to guard it are worse). For example, here's one possible
idea variation:
24. f3 Qb3 25. e4 Qc2+ 26. Ke1 Nb3 27. Be2 Qd2+ 28. Kf2 Nc1 29. Re1 Nd3+ 
click for larger viewIf white's pieces weren't so undeveloped, MAYBE it might merit playing on, but
basicly white would have to hope for a black blunder. |
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| Apr-22-19 | | cormier: better is 16.Qc3 Be6 17.e3 Rd8 18.Be2 Na5 19.Qb4 Qxb4+ 20.axb4 Nc6 = +0.32 (29 ply) |
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| Apr-22-19 | | landshark: Insanely easy - No, but seriously, I had to walk away from this one for awhile. When I came back to it, then I saw the Q maneuver that wins - and it's a beauty |
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| Apr-22-19 | | Patriot: Taking the queen is cheap if 23.Bc4 since 23...Qxc4+ a) 24.Nc3 Qd3 and mate next.
b) 24.Kd2 Qd3+ 25.Kd1 Nc2# |
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| Apr-23-19 | | RandomVisitor: After 22.Bc4! and quite a few cycles of CPU, the computer thinks white can hold onto a draw with a clever sacrifice of a bishop and the two queenside pawns.
click for larger viewStockfish_19032014_x64_modern: TB6
<68/61 10:29:08 0.00 22...Qc6 23.Nc3 Qxc4 24.Qd8> Nb3+ 25.Kd1 Qg4+ 26.Ne2 Qe4 27.Ke1 Qb1+ 28.Qd1 Qxb2 29.Nd4 Nxd4 30.exd4 Qxa3 31.Rg1 Kg8 32.g4 Bd7 33.Qd2 Qe7+ 34.Kd1 Qe4 35.g5 h5 36.Kc1 a5 37.Re1 Qc6+ 38.Qc2 Qg2 39.Re5 a4 40.Kb2 Qxh2 41.Ra5 Qb8 42.g6 fxg6 43.Qxg6 Qf8 44.Qxh5 Qb4+ 45.Kc2 Qc4+ 46.Kd2 Qxd4+ 47.Ke1 Qb4+ 48.Kf1 Qb1+ 49.Kg2 Qe4+ 50.f3 Qe2+ 51.Kg3 Qe1+ 52.Kg2 |
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Kibitzing
sac: 19...Bf5