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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-16-05 | | Averageguy: I looked at 40.Nf5, point being it is immune from capture due to 40...exf5 41.Re8+ Nxe8 42.Bd5+ Kf8 43.Qh8+. Ah well... |
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| Oct-16-05 | | Petrocephalon: After 39..Nd7, black threatens the lethal ..d5+, ..d4. So 40.Bd5 is a useful obstruction. If 40..Ne5, then 41.Be4, and white can now defend against 41..d5 with Bxh7+, Qxe5. If the bishop is accepted, the sac is sound; if declined, the offer is a sound defensive move. I.e. the puzzle is to find the best move, not necessarily a combination that wins in every possible variation. |
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| Oct-16-05 | | Petrocephalon: I thought I'd read through the previous kibitzing thouroughly, but I see now that <Rama> made essentially the same point. |
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| Oct-16-05 | | apoorv: i thought of Rxe6, Nxe6, Bd5 (thought it looked strong) |
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| Oct-16-05 | | scottnewhouse: In case anyone missed it. Black by taking 41...exd5 he takes away a timely check. If the Black d pawn can advance then Black's Queen can get in a check and harass the White King. This would make White's game more difficult. Of course this is more or lessed forced by the placement of the Bishop. An excellent combination. |
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| Oct-16-05 | | sfm: <Petrocephalon..Rama> Yes, you are right. White is _forced_ to play 40.Bd5 - on the last move before the time control. And that's why a player of Cardoso's caliber faltered on his next move: The by far most dangerous traps are the ones that are forced moves! |
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| Oct-16-05 | | Petrocephalon: <sfm> "...the most dangerous traps are forced moves" Interesting observation. |
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Oct-16-05
 | | Richard Taylor: <Frankly: Richard Taylor - my line was similar to yours, but started with Bd5. After the pawn captures Bishop, Queen sac as in game, but then Rd7+, not Ne5+. That also seems to lead to a forced mate - which is simpler than the line chosen. Anything wrong with it?> I think you mean 40 Bd5 e:d5 41. Re7+ but Kg8 is the fly in the ointment. I cant see a win from there. If 41 ... Re8+ Nf8 an there is only a draw fo White. I think. |
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| Oct-16-05 | | wals: Black 40...Ne5 puts it right back in the game! |
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| Oct-16-05 | | snowie1: Give 'til it hurts, huh? That's my kinda game. Black's donations were too little & especially too late. Bd5 I saw, but I would have played the R down before sacing the Q. Re7..Nxe7
Rxe7 and Q activate. That's why I'm not a master level player. |
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| Oct-16-05 | | snowie1: <EmperorAtahualpa> Come on now, they're not integrated yet. It was the White Q sacrificed on g7. lol |
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Oct-17-05
 | | al wazir: Is there a forced win if black doesn't accept the sacrifice? After 40. Bd5 Nf8 41. Bxe6 Nxe6 42. Rxe6 Nxe6 43. Rxe6 Qf7, I don't see a win for white. |
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| Oct-17-05 | | Cyphelium: <al wazir> Better is probably 40.- ♘f8 41. ♖xe6, for example 41.- ♘fxe6 42. ♖xe6 ♘xe6 43. ♗xe6+ ♔f8 44. ♕f6+ ♔e8 45. ♘f5 d5+ 46. ♔h4 and game over in view of 47. ♕h8+. |
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Oct-17-05
| | al wazir: <Cyphelium>: Thanks. Rossetto may well have calculated that line before offering the sacrifice. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | RandomVisitor: Komodo ponders 40.Bd5 Ne5 and decides that 40.Kh2 is better
click for larger viewKomodo-10.1-64bit:
+0.12/34 40.Kh2 d5+ 41.Rg3 d4 42.Qf3 Nf8 43.Rf1 Qd6 44.Qe4 Ra1 45.Rf6 R1a2 46.g6 hxg6 47.Nxg6 Nxg6 48.Qxg6 Rb2 49.h4 Rxb3 50.Bf3 Re3 51.Kh3 d3 52.Qh6 Re1 53.Qd2 Qe5 54.Bg2 Qxf6 55.Qxe1 Ra3 56.Qd2 Qc3 57.Qf4 Rb3 58.Rf3 d2 59.Qf7+ Kh8 60.Rxc3 Rxc3+ 61.Kh2 d1Q 62.Qf8+ Kh7 63.Be4+ Nf5 64.Bxf5+ exf5 65.Qxf5+ Kg7 |
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Jan-08-17
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Why has this puzzle returned? Did someone find a refutation of 40...Ne5? |
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| Jan-08-17 | | yadasampati: Ha, it took me less than a minute to find 40.Bd5, so either this puzzle is not insane or i have just turned insane. That is, as a manner of speaking ... Seriously, i was just lucky, or this is another nice example of intuition, that sometimes enables us to ""see" things, without traversing the whole logical path. Recently, Caruana showed that humans can potentially see more than computers. After his queen sacrifice game against Nakamura (London Classic, 2016), he commented that, in his preparation, his computer did not see 21. Nf5 because it puts too much importance on material balance (and wants to recapture the black queen). So his brilliant move not only beat Nakamura but also the computer :-) |
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| Jan-08-17 | | AlicesKnight: I found 40.Bd5 but went wrong in the follow-up. 47.Ne7 is a nice one to see from way off - beautiful clearance and block a la Alekhine. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | razetime: <Emperor Atahualpa> I also thought of saccing the queen on g7 first, but saw it would crumble unless Bd5 was not played. |
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Jan-08-17
 | | agb2002: White has a bishop and a pawn for a knight.
Black threatens d5+ followed by d4 and also Ne5, blocking the e-file and controlling f3, f7, etc. White would like to play Re7 followed by Qf3. This suggests 40.Bd5 (40.Nf5 Nxf5+ 41.gxf5 d5+): A) 40... exd5 41.Re7
A.1) 41... d4 42.Qf3 Ne5 43.Qd5+ Kh8 44.Rxc7 Rxc7 45.Qxd6 wins. A.2) 41... Ne5 42.Rxc7 Rxc7 43.cxd5 + - [Q+2P vs R+N]. B) 40... Ne5 41.Be4
B.1) 41... d5 42.Bxh7+ Kxh7 43.Qxe5 wins another pawn. B.2) 41... Kh8 42.Rf1 Qb8 43.Bb1 Ra3 (say) 44.Qc2 Ne8 (44... Ng6 45.Nxg6 hxg6 46.Qxg6 wins) 45.Rf8+ Kg7 46.Qxh7+ Kxf8 47.Ng6#. C) 40... Nf8 41.Qf6
C.1) 41... exd5 42.Re7 Qxe7 43.Rxe7 Rxe7 44.Qxe7 dxc4 45.bxc4 + - [Q+P vs R+N]. C.2) 41... Qd7 42.Nf5
C.2.a) 42... exd5 43.Nh6+ Kh8 44.Qxf8#.
C.2.b) 42... Nxf5+ 43.gxf5 wins decisive material (43... exd5 44.Re7 as above). C.2.c) 42... Qe8 43.Nxg7 Rxg7 44.Bxe6+ wins decisive material. C.3) 41... Qe7 42.Qxe7 Rxe7 43.Nf5 and the double pin seems to win the e-pawn. C.4) 41... Qf7 42.Be4 (42.Qd8 Qf2#) and White keeps the extra pawn and has better endgame prospects. D) 40... Nf8 41.Rxe6
D.1) 41... Nfxe6 42.Rxe6 (threatens Re8# and Re7+) D.1.a) 42... Nxe6 43.Bxe6+ Kf8 44.Qh8+ Ke7 45.Qf6+ Ke8 46.Nf5 seems to win decisive material due to 47.Qh8#. D.1.b) 42... Kf8 43.Qf3+ Qf7 (43... Kg8 44.Re8#) 44.Rf6 wins. D.1.c) 42... Kh8 43.Re8#.
D.2) 41... Ngxe6 42.Rxe6 (threatens Rg6# and Re7+) D.2.a) 42... Nxe6 transposes to D.1.a.
D.2.b) 42... Kf7 43.Qf6+ Kg8 44.Re7+ and mate next. |
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Jan-08-17
| | agb2002: 42.Qf3 in my line A.1 is met with 42... d5+ probably winning for Black. However, 42.Rxg7+ Kxg7 43.Nf5+ looks winning for White. Better luck next Sunday. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | goodevans: Gotta give your opponent the chance to make the mistake! |
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| Jan-08-17 | | gofer: I can't believe that the queen sac is going to work, so I looked at my only other choice... <40 Bd5 ...>
The bishop is immune. Accepting the sacrifice probably makes the
queen sacrifice work! I can't see it all, but it looks far to risky... 40 ... exd5
41 Qxg7+ Kxg7
42 Nf6+ 
So instead of taking the bishop black has to deal with white's threat of exchanging its rooks on e6 to set up a defensive nightmare
for black...
40 ... Nf8
41 Rxe6 Nxe6
42 Rxe6 Nxe6
43 Bxe6+ Kf8
44 Nf5 d5+
45 Kh4
<40 ... Ne5>
<41 Rxe5 dxe5>
<42 Be4 ...>
click for larger viewOkay, white has lost an exchange, but has three pawns attacking the king
along with the rook, knight, bishop and queen. So probably a done deal.
White will play 43 g6 opening up black's defences like a kipper. Whether black takes the pawn or not or not is immaterial. White simply plays Qe3 exploiting the weak kingside even further... White controls a1 and a8, so black's rooks are muted. I would suggest that black might try <42 ... Qb8> attacking Pb3, but that's only a guess... ~~~
Hmmm, black took the bishop. Well that makes things far simpler for white! |
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Jan-08-17
 | | grubyilysy: agb2002:
(...)
B) 40... Ne5 41.Be4
(...)
B.3) 41... Qd8!  42.g6?? (42. Nf3) Hh5+! 43. gh5 Qg5# |
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| Jan-08-17 | | morfishine: Was Rossetto Stoned?
***** |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 41.Qxg7+