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Vladimiro Pina vs Duarte Duarte
Lisbon (2001), Lisbon POR, rd 6, Aug-26
Caro-Kann Defense: Advance Variation. Van der Wiel Attack (B12)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-02-08  sombreronegro: 28 Nf4 - d3

The Queen is en prise so it must be moved defended or exchanged. However there is an elegant indirect forking defense which can, if accepted, win a pawn. The knight also threatens to just take it with check because of the pinned queen. The discovered rook that threatens another at f7 seems to create too many problems for black. An interesting position.

May-02-08  YouRang: Based on my recollection, this isn't a typical spoiler.

Usually, the spoiler temps you to go down a path that leads to doom (you 'solve' it if you sense the danger and 'settle' for a safe move).

Here, the Nxd5 line doesn't exactly spell doom. It's not the best move, but it seems playable.

May-02-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <<YouRang> wrote: [snip] Here, the Nxd5 line doesn't exactly spell doom. It's not the best move, but it seems playable.>

My superficial impression is the same. When I get home in about 6 hours, you can count on a computer analysis ;>)

May-02-08  sombreronegro: Did not see that angle. Again the Queen was immune all along. The queen is recovered with a fork and or double check etc.
May-02-08  DavidD: A difficult puzzle indeed! Not only was it difficult to see the tactical idea(s) (especially Qa5+), the calculation also had to be very accurate--there were several options to analyze later on in the combination. A good example of a complex middlegame combination that requires all the traits of a master: imagination, accurate calculation, and instinctive assessment of the resulting positions.
May-02-08  parmetd: Nxd5 beautiful and easy.
May-02-08  firebrandx: <parmetd: Nxd5 beautiful and easy.>

Except that it doesn't win. Black has the piece for 3 pawns with best play.

May-02-08  chicagotim: Two questions. Why 19. Kb1? it seems pointless since there is no apparent present or future threat to the king at c1. and why not 29... Nxd5? i realize that it loses the Queen, but it can capture both rooks in the process.
May-02-08  zooter: <johnlspouge:> I posted a reply for you in the previous day's game
May-02-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <<zooter> wrote: <johnlspouge:> I posted a reply for you in the previous day's game>

Thanks, <zooter>.

"A drama critic is a man who leaves no turn unstoned."

- George Bernard Shaw

Chess critics are much the same...

May-02-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: I think 28.Nxd5! wins, e.g. (1) 28...Qxa4 29.Nb6+ Ke8 30.Nxa4 leaves W a pawn up with more active pieces, and Black's pawn on c5 hanging; (2) 28...Nxd5? 29.Rxf7+ followed by taking the free queen on c6; (3) 28...exd5 29.Rxd5+! Nxd5 (on 29...Ke6, 30.Rd6+ or even 30.Qxc6 Nxc6 31.Rd6+ should win) 30.Rxf7+ and now either 30...Ne7 31.Rxe7+ Kxe7 32.Qxc6 or 30...Ke8 31.Qxc6+ Kxf7 32.Qxd5+ followed by Qxc5 leaves White with a won ending.
May-02-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Woops -- missed the game continuation.
May-02-08  234: Thursday puzzle <23. ...?> May-01-08 Soltis vs Z Kozul, 1989
May-02-08  Terry McCracken: <parmetd: Nxd5 beautiful and easy.>

Really? Well you never solved it. In fact 28. Nd5 is on the edge of losing, in fact it may lose as White is down a Night without any real compensation other than the extra pawns which may prove difficult to hold. 28. Nxd5?! exd5 29. Rxd5+ Ke8!

fen


click for larger view

Now what? This is a spoiler.

May-02-08  Whitehat1963: Looks like I found a pretty good puzzle after all, then. So it turned out to be a spoiler, oh well. It's still pretty the way it turned out.
May-02-08  zb2cr: Well thanks, <chessgames.com>. I considered both 28. Nxd5 and 28. Rxd5. After almost half an hour of grueling analysis, I was unable to get either of them to work, largely because I couldn't find a good follow-up for either against best play.

I finally decided on 28. Qa5.

May-02-08  Whitehat1963: <saw the whole thing. was too easy lol>

"Nameless" rhymes with .... Oh, never mind!

May-02-08  Yodaman: What can white do if black does 30...Kc8?
May-02-08  Yodaman: Scratch my last comment. It's 31.d5xc5 and the queen is pinned and dead with a white able to mate.
May-02-08  mworld: So i saw NxC6 as the first move threatening the same fork on the queen if black takes whites queen, with the difference being two pawns additional compensation....

however, im sure im missing something?

May-02-08  mworld: and i see what im missing now :) KxNc6 doh
May-02-08  wals: Wow! I was so busy reading all the late posts in the last puzzle's kibitzes that I nearly forgot about this one. Fascinating stuff.

Yes, well, after trying to arrive at a candidate move I was that confused that I threw in the towel. Just too tough for me.
I thought of Nxd5 but considered Qxa4 too important to ignore, not realising that Nd5-b6+, wins the Queen and gives a strong game.

Fritz 11, as usual, has its own ideas.

Vladimiro Pina - Duarte Duarte, Open Lisbon 2001

Analysis by Fritz 11: depth 19/41 time 7min 45

1. (0.66): 28.Qa4-a5 Kd7-e8 29.Rf3-a3 c5-c4 30.Nf4-h5 Rh8-g8 31.f2-f4 Qc6-b7 32.Qa5-a4+ Ke8-f8 33.Ra3-g3 Ra8-b8 34.Qa4-a3 Kf8-e8 35.c2-c3 Ne7-c6 36.Rd1-d2 Qb7-b5

2. (0.57): 28.Qa4-a3 Kd7-e8 29.Rf3-c3 c5-c4 30.Rc3-f3 Ra8-b8 31.c2-c3 Qc6-b6 32.Rf3-e3 Ne7-c6 33.Kb1-a1 Qb6-a5 34.Qa3-d6 Qa5-a4 35.Rd1-d2 a6-a5

(, 03.05.2008)

May-02-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: The usual Mom-and-Pop Toga II 1.3.1 evaluation to 17 plies of the puzzle position is

[ply 17/60, time 07:20, value +0.48]

28.Qa3 Ke8 29.h5 Rg8 30.Rc3 c4 31.Ne2 Qb6 32.Nd4 Rb8 33.f4 Qb4 34.Qxb4 Rxb4 35.Rf3 Kd7 36.f5 Rgb8 37.fxe6+ fxe6

Toga evaluates the supposedly horrendous results of the sacrifice as

[ply 17/42, time 01:34, value -0.10]

28.Nxd5 exd5 29.<Rxd5> Ke8 30.Qxc6+ Nxc6 31.Rxc5 Nd4 32.Rd3 Ne6 33.Rc6 Ke7 34.Rdd6 Rhd8 35.Kc1 Rxd6 36.exd6+ Kd7 37.Rb6 Nf4 38.Rb7+ Kxd6 39.Rxf7 Ne6 40.Kd2

Although I would defer to those hombres wielding larger computers, I have to call this puzzle a "dud", rather than a "spoiler". The move 28.Nxd5 might not be the best, but it does not seem horrendous. According to Toga, it does not degrade a win into a draw or a draw into a loss.

May-02-08  Terry McCracken: < johnlspouge: The usual Mom-and-Pop According to Toga, it does not degrade a win into a draw or a draw into a loss.>

Well I would prefer Black, I don't believe White can win.

White could easily lose this and has to fight to draw. Ke8! is the spoiler.

May-02-08  Magic Castle: <TerryMcCracken> 30. Qc6 Nc5 31. Rc5 with 3 pawns for a Knight and a rook in the 7th rank in the offing. Since the black's h rook is imprisoned, more black pawns will fall. I think white has overwhelming advantage. Once the white pawns start rolling black will feel the pressure. In actual game, black will be consuming more time saving his Knight from the 2 rooks and pawn superiority. Try play it out with a friend and handle black after 31. Rc5 and see what I mean.
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