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Vladimir Kramnik vs Boris Spassky
Korchnoi Birthday Gp B (2001) (rapid), Zurich SUI, rd 5, Apr-28
Queen's Gambit Declined: Tartakower Defense. General (D58)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
Mar-05-04  thunderhrom: a 13 move draw?...with white?...against spassky?...has kramnik no shame?...
Mar-05-04  square dance: <thunderhrom> im sure there is some reason for this short draw, i mean other than the fact that it is kramnik. ;)
Aug-21-05  Chess Addict: Kramnik is one of the most drawish player, if not Petrosian and Ulfman.
Aug-21-05  who: I'm not sure how it would have looked if Kramnik beat up on a 67 year old former world champ.
Aug-21-05  acirce: <I'm not sure how it would have looked if Kramnik beat up on a 67 year old former world champ.>

Well, he beat Korchnoi in this the Korchnoi Birthday tournament, so... This final round draw was just because it guaranteed him 1st place in the group. He then went on to win the tournament after quarter-, semi- and finals.

http://www.ajedrez-de-estilo.com.ar...

Oct-24-05  gazzawhite: Just calculated the "Chicken Factor" according to Mig Greengard's formula: http://www.chessninja.com/migonches...

Kramnik's Chicken Rating I calculated to be 109, possibly one of the highest such ratings ever.

Oct-24-05  Daodejing: In the following link you can see an evaluation for short draws for the years 2000 - 2005 (draws under 20 moves):

http://members.aon.at/sfischl/sd.txt

Anand! seems to make more short draws than Kramnik and Kasparovs factor is not significant lower.

I don't really understand this Kramnik bashing.

DDJ

Feb-01-06  Conde de Montecristo: <"The turning point in my career came, after my matches with Kasparov, with the realization that White should steer for equality instead of just playing for a win.">

-- Vladimir Kramnik--

Feb-27-06  whatthefat: <gazzawhite>
Point 4 in that list is contradictory. It's called "I was just happy to get a draw against so-and-so", yet the lower rated player gets a reduced "chicken factor". Eh?
Feb-27-06  devilwolfdog: Calling someone a "Kramnik Basher" seems to me just to an easy way to disregard someone's comments. You have to admit two things:

1) Since about 2002 Kramnik has played very few Super GM tournaments and when he has played, he hasn't done very well including dead last at MTel.

2) He halved his title defense against Leko who is obviously a very strong player but is not on the order of Kasparov, Anand or Topalov. If he is serious about being "World Champion" he will play a match against Kasparov, Topalov or Anand in the next 12 months. No excuses.

Feb-27-06  square dance: <devilwolfdog> <1) Since about 2002 Kramnik has played very few Super GM tournaments and when he has played, he hasn't done very well including dead last at MTel.> kramnik had his big money match with deep fritz 8 in 2002. due to its wandering schedule it pretty much whiped out his tournament schedule that year. in 2003 he played in all three super tournaments. in 2004 he played in all three super touraments plus his match with leko. in 2005 he played in wijk aan zee, mtel, dortmund and the russian super final. that is hardly a light schedule. as far as the not doing well part, which is true in some of those tournaments, he finished =1st in linares 2003 and first the next year.
Feb-28-06  acirce: <1) Since about 2002 Kramnik has played very few Super GM tournaments>

A blatantly wrong and as such ridiculous statement as <square dance> documents.

<He halved his title defense against Leko who is obviously a very strong player but is not on the order of Kasparov, Anand or Topalov.>

It depends. When the match was played he was in tremendous form. Topalov, btw? Some people here forget that he has only really shined for the last year. Up to 2004 he was a top player but was not considered as being of the same calibre as the KKA triangle. 2005 meant a qualitative leap.

<If he is serious about being "World Champion" he will play a match against Kasparov, Topalov or Anand in the next 12 months.>

Kasparov will be tough since he has retired. Topalov will be tough since Kramnik has offered him such a match but he has declined. Anand, sure, but then we get no reunification and I'm not sure he would accept it either. In that case it's hard to blame Kramnik that his challengers are running away from him. Anyway I would prefer some kind of qualifier for Kramnik's title instead of just picking some big name.

Feb-28-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: What I really don't understand is the obsession of some people with short draws of Kramnik. Well, as a chess fan I don't like these draws either but I also know that they are legitimate and also quite common (for many different reasons) on almost every level of competitive chess. (If you want to change it, then change the rules at first.) Kramnik is not exceptional or extreme case in this matter among todays top players. It can anyone find out easily using chessgames.com's searching tools and game database. (For example, did you know that there are more than four hundred Tal's draws with 20 moves or less included 183 draws no longer than 15 moves? See http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... ) And of course, for agreement of any draw there is necessary compliance of both sides in the game. To blame solely one player of producing short draws and calling him "Drawnik" (or "Drewko" or "Drawnand" or "Topadraw") is just silly. Don't waste your time and energy with these nonsenses. There are much better things to do and comment on this great site.
Mar-01-06  aw1988: Honza Drawvenka
Mar-01-06  setebos: Its very difficult to draw in 20 moves against another GM if you have a monster hangover,so lets not belittle Tals achievements. I could not draw a GM even if sober for a decade.
Mar-09-06  whatthefat: <Daodejing>
Interesting data, but I don't see how it's a defence for Kramnik. Sure, if you only look at his "short draw factor" then he's not exceptional. I'm not convinced it's the most meaningful statistic though (i.e. draws as white under 20 moves / draws as blacck under 20 moves).

I think the other columns are just as informative. In particular, compare his total draw percentage to the other top players' (2000-2005):

Leko --------- 71%
Kramnik ------ 70%

Gelfand ------ 66%
Kasparov ---- 63%
Adams ------- 60%
Ivanchuk ----- 60%
Svidler ------- 60%
Radjabov ---- 58%
Akopian ------ 56%
Aronian ------ 56%
Bacrot -------- 56%
Grischuk ----- 54%
Polgar -------- 54%
Topalov ------ 53%
Ponomariov -- 51%
Mamedyarov - 48%
Shirov -------- 47%
Morozevich -- 45%

And who's getting bashed by the fans? Leko and Kramnik. Whether the criticism is justified or not, you can see the objective cause of it.

Mar-09-06  acirce: <whatthefat> If that is the "objective reason" it's perfect proof that the bashers are mindless idiots. Yes, 70% compared to 60% or 66%, such a scandalous difference.

But the story doesn't end there. The same site shows that Kramnik, Kasparov and Leko are those who have played against the highest level of opposition measured in average rating. http://members.aon.at/sfischl/class... is for 2000-2005 and also the first month of 2006. Some examples:

Kramnik 2720
Kasparov 2706
Leko 2704

Anand 2691
Topalov 2685

Svidler 2634
Adams 2648
Ivanchuk 2634
Gelfand 2651
etc.

So, Kramnik spends 6 years playing an average opposition of 2720. Ivanchuk spends 6 years playing an average opposition or 2634. Of course the former is going to get more draws!

Not that the base of the entire argument, that there is something wrong with draws per se as opposed to short draws, is entirely convincing to say the least.

Mar-09-06  whatthefat: <acirce>
<If that is the "objective reason" it's perfect proof that the bashers are mindless idiots.> Oh, I'm not debating that.

And yes, taking the opposition into account is very important. But what I'm saying is that a lot of people don't care about that. They see more draws, and for whatever reason, they get annoyed.

<Yes, 70% compared to 60% or 66%, such a scandalous difference.> And regarding the difference between 70% and 60% being detectable, look at it in terms of percentage decisive games. It's then quite substantial. Understand that I'm not trying to justify - only explain. There is a reason for Kramnik and Leko being targeted; it's not because people don't like how they look

Oct-31-07  HOTDOG: Leko --------- 71%
Kramnik ------ 70%

Gelfand ------ 66%
Kasparov ---- 63%
Adams ------- 60%
Ivanchuk ----- 60%
Svidler ------- 60%
Radjabov ---- 58%
Akopian ------ 56%
Aronian ------ 56%
Bacrot -------- 56%
Grischuk ----- 54%
Polgar -------- 54%
Topalov ------ 53%
Ponomariov -- 51%
Mamedyarov - 48%
Shirov -------- 47%
Morozevich -- 45%

FISCHER ------- 26%!
(according to Robert James Fischer)

Apr-05-09  WhiteRook48: Oh, come on!
Mar-27-18  RookFile: If there is someone who knows more about the Tartakower variation of the queen's gambit than Spassky, I don't know who that is.

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