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Fucini vs Olivari
Genoa (Italy) (1895)
Italian Game: Giuoco Pianissimo. Normal (C50)  ·  0-1



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sac: 7...h5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
Oct-28-03  minimax: I only know 2 games, where Black has won after 7... h5 8.hxg4 hxg4, both with great mistakes from White. I wonder if this sacrifice is correct anyhow. In this game 10.Bf7+ whould have been better for sure. Can Black maintain the attack by 9... d5?
Oct-28-03  drukenknight: what about the sacrifice: 7...Bxh3?
Oct-29-03  minimax: Nobody did dare so far to play 7... Bxh3. A sacrifice is refuted anyway by accepting it. I consider it to be premature. The crucial point of 7... h5! 8.hxg4 hxg4 is, that one states 7...h5! to be a strong move and the acception of the sacrifice very dangerous for White.
Oct-29-03  drukenknight: >>> A sacrifice is refuted anyway by accepting it.

THis must be why I keep losing in Kings Gambit. The guy takes my pawn!

>>I consider it to be premature.

Whatever. This is entirely a subjective opinion formed in your own mind w/o any logical basis.

The cold hard fact is that when white plays 7 h3 he is ALREADY offering an attack to his opponent if he is ready to sacrifice. It is not suprise then, that having turned down one oppurtunity to sacrifice he comes up short the second time around?

What you consider to be "premature" I consider to be the basic pure premise of the position. Here is a sack do you want it?

Have you tried playing ...Bxh3 believe me it is a tremendous try. Put it on a computer or on the board and you will see.

Oct-29-03  Brian Watson: "Whatever. This is entirely a subjective opinion formed in your own mind w/o any logical basis"

Surely there are more polite ways of disagreeing with someone.

After 7..Nxh3 8.gxh3, where's the attack? And in any case white can just play conservatively: 8.Ng5
or 8.Bxf7+ Kxf7 9.Ng5+, 10.Nxh3

Oct-29-03  drukenknight: It's harsh, but I have no quarrel w/ minimax, I know he had posted elsewhere and I had learned alot from the post. So "No" it is not personally insulting or defamatory, there just nothing concrete about the statement.
Oct-30-03  minimax: Thanks for your moral support, Brian.
Oct-30-03  drukenknight: sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent.
Oct-31-03  pawngrabber: Let´s talk about chess again, folks. If I´m right, we have two different opinions: 7...Bxh3!? (drukenknight) and 7...Bxh3?! (minimax). You see, it´s nearly the same. Unfortunately we´ve got no substantations from minimax about his estimation so far, whereas drukenknight seems convinced, that the position demands 7... Bxh3, but we don´t know either, how he will continue the attack. Our goal should be the estimation, who´s oppinion is sound. O.k., we have 7... Bxh3 8.gxh3 Qd7 9. Kh2 (is that right, drukenknight?). How should we go on?
Oct-31-03  drukenknight: no I did not say the position demands the sack. It just seems that the oppurtunity for a sack was offered as early as the 7th move. ANd so this sort of possibility has been hanging over the game at least since then. I would not think the sack on move 7 wins or loses, it's just a condition that exists.
Nov-06-03  zhentil: drunkenknight, you're misunderstanding the nature of the position. it is well-known that it is a mistake to castle too early in the giuoco pianissimo (with d3 and d6) as it allows black to offer the sacrifice in the game. the reason the sacrifice in the game is strong is that it opens the h-file and deprives white's king of the defense offered by the f3-knight. bxh3, on the other hand, simply opens the g-file for white. white's defensive options are numerous after Bxh3. simply putting a rook on the g-file would leave black without any tangible compensation. white can also organize a quick counterattack in the center, something he has no time for in the ..h5 variation.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessical: Minimax appears correct in that
(1). After White plays 10.Bxf7 he is winning.
(2). 7...Bxh3 just does't work; e.g. 8.gxh3 Qd7 9.Kg2 0–0–0 (9...g5!? (death or glory)10.Bxg5 Rg8 11.Kh2 Rg6 12.Rg1 0–0–0 13.Nh4 Rxg5 14.Rxg5 Bxf2 15.Nf5 and White wins) 10.Rg1 when Black has nothing.
Premium Chessgames Member
  sea7kenp: Looks like a Poisoned Queen to me.

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