chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Chessgames premium membership fee will increase to $39 per year effective June 15, 2023. Enroll Now!

Gioachino Greco vs NN
"When in Rome" (game of the day Jun-06-2017)
London (1623), London ENG
Owen Defense: Matovinsky Gambit (B00)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 88 more Greco/NN games
sac: 7.gxh7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Some games have annotation. These are denoted in the game list with the icon.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-03-11  DrMAL: <sleepyirv: Hey, I'm new to algebraic notation. Why is it "gxh7" instead of "gxh7+"?> Greco didn't holler, "CHECK!"
Oct-27-11  master of defence: This game is fabulous.
Nov-15-11  AnalyzeThis: It really is. Yes, we all know today about the weak diagonal to the king, but over the board, white figured this out and left his rook hanging.
Aug-03-12  The Last Straw: No the best guy in chess history was NN!!!
Nov-03-13  paramount: Is any earlier game in this database?

If not, this game deserves GOTD!!

Apr-27-15  Ke2: such an awesome game, my favorite greco one
Jun-17-15  Shoukhath007: But in some chess sites nunn's place is occupied by unknown player. Is nunn is that unknown player
Mar-17-16  talhal20: Greco has prepared this trap. Must give him credit for that as he must have spent days on this with number of variations to develop this and many more traps.
Mar-17-16  RookFile: It's logical, consistent play on both sides. Black puts his bishop on b7 and plays that to the max so he can win the rook on h1. Meanwhile, white has a more important target.
Apr-06-16  posoo: HAS ANYBODY CHEKD ON WAYNE prudluv lately? He seems a little nervose.
Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: User: Wayne Proudlove is fine! He is still very proud and still madly in love.
Apr-03-17  Jeweller: Chess friends. Chess engines analyze this game here: http://proint.narod.ru/jeweller/jew...
Apr-15-17  Yigor: The correct line: 1. e4 b6 2. d4 Bb7 3. Bd3 f5 4. exf5 Bxg2 5. Qh5 g6 6. fxg6 Bg7 7. gxh7 Kf8 8. Nf3 Nf6 9. Qg6 Bxf3 10. Rg1 Rxh7 11. Qg3 Be4 12. Bxe4 Nxe4 13. Qf3 and white should win. This refutes the Matovinsky gambit.

PSCC: 2E --> 2E1b (Owen defense) --> 2DE1b --> 2DEf1b

Jun-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: The O-NN defense.
Jun-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  catlover: The hapless NN once again bites the dust.
Jun-06-17  The Kings Domain: A charmer. :-)
Jun-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: mate in 8 with queen sac
Jun-06-17  Howard: Who the hell comes up with GOTD's like THIS ?
Jun-06-17  petemccabe: I wonder what is the furthest away from its original file any pawn has ever gotten. Where's Tim KrabbĂ© when I need him?
Jun-06-17  schnarre: ...Alas, Poor NN!
Jun-22-17  Christoforus Polacco: Polerio's analysis and Greco's games this is begining of modern theory in chess.
Dec-23-18  HarryP: Nice!
Jul-26-19  Chesgambit: tactical Queen sacrfice
7. gxh7!
Jun-22-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Ziryab: Now that this game, first found in Greco's MountStephen manuscript (1623), has the correct date and location, the title "When in Rome" is confusing.
Jan-06-23  generror: Nice miniature with an amazingly hypermodern, but equally stupid opening that is gambiting the f-pawn. As so often, the best way to refute the gambit is to accept the it. White hopes for a rook but finds quick death, especially because he doesn't know how to play his own opening well -- after <6...Nf6??>, Black's suffering is over after a nice mate in 2.

<6...Bg7> is definitively the better move. In fact, it's the only move that doesn't lose outright. I have seen quite a few "analyses" of this opening on the internet, made by random fans, that show two or three variations and conclude that "Black is fine" and that it's a great opening.

Looking at a few opening databases and spending half an hour exploring this opening with Stockfish shows that, at least against reasonable players (say, Elo 1000+), it is just suicide. There is no clear way for White to win, but Black has to be EXTREMELY accurate, while White just has to keep from blundering and playing natural moves that keep up the pressure. So if you're not Stockfish or Carlsen, this opening sucks, plain and simple.

One last thing that struck me is that the positions arising from this opening are really boring and ugly. This opening sucks even aesthetically.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 5)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Capturing the king
from A history of chess by lostemperor
The shortest game I have ever seen. Amazing!
from Mitz Moshe's favorite games by Mitz Moshe
asiltd's favorite games
by asiltd
Greco, Gioacchino (1600-1634)
from 1st Class Masters by PMKnight
Short game
from fplasmid's favorite games by fplasmid
mandar's favorite games
by mandar
pixing's favorite games
by pixing
equanimus' favorite games
by equanimus
Short game "sacfest"
from Long and short Chess Games by Master of Sacrifice
good
from ninja007's favorite games by ninja007
Traps
by JerseyDevil
Whoops.
by grozny
Greco queen sac
from Check mate I by popski
woodenbishop's favorite games #1
by woodenbishop
A queen sac mate in the opening!
from Vischer's Opening Traps by Vischer
The first theory appeared...
from These were the greatest... by nikolaas
A famous Greco game - one of many.
from Calchexas' Famous Games by Calchexas
Fantastic
from Dashing Attacks- (Fantastic Games) by Morty
Queen Sacs, Part II
by Ron
old games. odd games. and other games
by athyn
plus 208 more collections (not shown)

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2023, Chessgames Services LLC