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Muller vs NN
Vienna (1928), Vienna AUT
English Opening: King's English Variation. Three Knights System General (A27)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-14-05  Whitehat1963: Nice little sac/trap in the opening of the day.
Sep-08-08  Trigonometrist: Also see:

B Blumenfeld vs NN, 1903

I don't know which is real...:>

Apr-17-09  WhiteRook48: maybe they're both real
Jan-22-13  shakman: ♕d4!
Sep-21-13  Xeroxx: 60 Percent of the time It works every time.
Mar-21-16  raviarun: What if 8....0-0 in response to 8.Qd4 ? Am not able to see an obvious win
Mar-21-16  raviarun: Forgot to add, after 8.Qxd4, material is even.
Mar-21-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White is one knight down.

White can recover the piece and achieve a considerable advantage with 8.Qxd4 (8.Nxe7 Bc5 9.Nxc6 Qxg5 looks bad for White) :

A) 8... Nxd4 9.Nf6+ Kf8 10.Bh6#.

B) 8... Rf8 9.Nf6#.

C) 8... Rg8 9.Nf6+ Kf8 10.Bh6+ Rg7 11.Nxh7+ Ke8 (11... Kg8 12.Qxg7#) 12.Qxg7 d5 (else 13.Qf8#) 13.Nf6#.

D) 8... f6 9.Nxf6+ with an extra pawn and a strong attack. For example, 9... Nf5 10.Nd5 Qf8 11.g4 wins a piece.

Mar-21-16  ndg2: <raviarun What if 8....0-0 in response to 8.Qd4 ? Am not able to see an obvious win>

There's a mate in 4 or something.
9.Nf6+ Kh8 (Kg7 would allow knight+queen double check and mate on g7) 10.Ng4+ f6 11.Bxf6+ Rxf6 12.Qxf6+ Kg8 13.Nh6#

Mar-21-16  morfishine: I remember this one: <8.Qxd4> Sure, after losing the Bishop, Black can now run and try to save his rook, but its all to no avail...poor NN

*****

Mar-21-16  Big Black Bug: What if 8..0-0 is the question...

9.Nf6+ Kh8 10. Ng4+ Nxd4 is no good

I think 9.Nf6+ Kh8 10. Qh4 h5 should win for white, but I don't see a forced mate (with my limited vision...)

Mar-21-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: On 8.Qxd4! 0-0!, 9.Qh4! threatens both 10.Nf6+ and mate next and 10.Nxe7+. White is winning after either 9...Nf5 10.Bxd8 Nxh4 11.Bxh4 or 9...f6 10.Nxf6+.
Mar-21-16  erixn: I don't think (8.Qxd4) 8..0-0 does anything to save Black: 9.Nf6+ Kh8 10.Ng4+, and now ..Nxd4 runs into 11.Bf6+ Kg8 12.Nh6 #
Mar-21-16  leRevenant: I found this hard for a Monday but got it, quand même.
Mar-21-16  saturn2: The black Bishop on d4 guards the mate in 2 so 8 QxB, and Black cannot retake 8 ..f6 or 0-0 does not help either
Mar-21-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: A little bit more complicated than your normal Monday. The game line is easy enough, but <raviarun> is absolutely right to ask about 8...0-0:


click for larger view

White has many ways to win from here, but each needs a little bit of that calculating stuff.

Fritzie finds the forced mate:

8... O-O 9. Nf6+ Kh8 10. Ng4+ f6 11. Bxf6+ Rxf6 12. Qxf6+ Kg8 13. Nh6#

FSR finds the pressure-increasing 9. Qh4


click for larger view

In human mode (before I switched Fritzie on), I wanted to play 8... O-O 9. Nf6+ Kh8 10. Qc3


click for larger view

... with multiple threats against the black king and queen.

However you slice it, black is tied up like a kipper. If kippers go in for that kind of thing.

Mar-21-16  alphee: SUPERB !!!!
Mar-21-16  passion pour 64: 6...Nce7 is the only move for black.
Mar-21-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: Just a little more challenging than a typical Monday puzzle, as the solver must see that White can mate with a knight on f6 & Bishop on h6 once the defense of f6 is removed.

However, the "easy" part is looking for a queen sac, since long-time cg.com users are trained to look for those on Mondays :)

So 8.Qxd4!!! Nxd4 9.Nf6 Kf8 10.Bh6#

Mar-21-16  zb2cr: Main line: 8. Qxd4, Nxd4; 9. Nf6+, Kf8; 10. Bh6#.

For Black's attempt to wiggle out with 8. ... O-O, see posts by <FSR> and <Once>.

Mar-21-16  ndg2: I did not mentioned it in my original line above, but <erinx> correctly states that castling does not help: white can still sac the queen after 9.Nf6+ Kh8 10.Ng4+ because Nxd4 allows 11.Bf6+ Kg8 12.Nh6# . This means 10...f6 is forced, which postpones mate for one move (see above).
Mar-21-16  dfcx: The best defense against 8.Qxd4 is ..f6. Stockfish 64 6 rates it +4.21/21.

After 8.Qxd4 f6 9.Nxf6+ Kf7 10.Qf4! (The only move to keep the advantage)


click for larger view

There are many choices for black with similar results: h6/h5/d6/d5 etc.

This is way too complicated for Monday against NN.

Mar-21-16  mel gibson: Computer replies to 8 QxB
with 8... pawn to f6

with a score of -3.71 to black depth 18.

So this is not a checkmate position.

Mar-21-16  starry2013: I thought it was a simple knight and bishop combo, but then a minute or two later I realised the bishop was in the way. Soon after I realised get rid of the problem bishop and the combo was back on.
Mar-21-16  starry2013: thegoodanarchist: <However, the "easy" part is looking for a queen sac, since long-time cg.com users are trained to look for those on Mondays :) >

The queen sac is normally much nearer the king.

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