Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Napoleon Bonaparte vs Henri Gatien Bertrand
St. Helena (1820) (probably analysis), St Helena
Scotch Game: Napoleon Gambit (C44)  ·  1-0



Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 3 more games of Napoleon Bonaparte
sac: 11.fxe5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can display posts in reverse order, by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page and checking the option "Display newest kibitzes on top."

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-16-10  redmaninaustin: a man, a plan, a canal: panama
Aug-19-10  Lil Swine: if someone beat him he'd probably kill them on the spot
Nov-25-10  estebansponton: pas mal Napoleón. N'est ce pas???
May-03-11  IRONCASTLEVINAY: General was blindfold
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Wow. He's pretty good.
Aug-15-12  Pirandus: Fake?
Aug-15-12  thomastonk: Here one can find some facts on Napoleon and Chess and on this game in particular:
Dec-13-13  RedShield: <You and whose army!?>
May-29-15  siegbert: It is a nice combination which finishes the game.
May-29-15  Zonszein: Napoleon is overrated
As many of these so called "geniuses"
May-29-15  Granny O Doul: The game title makes no sense. He seems to have been quite able long after leavig Elba.
Jun-10-15  siegbert: its a pun!!
Jun-10-15  Petrosianic: No, no, no' a pun. What's that thing what spells the same, backwards and forwards?
Jun-10-15  A.T PhoneHome: Palindrome?
Jun-10-15  paavoh: @Petrosianic: That is a palindrome, I believe.

Note added later: earlier pages contain discussion on this: this is a reversal, a form of palindrome.

Jun-10-15  Petrosianic: It's no' a palindrome, the palindrome of Bolton would be Notlob!

(Sorry, nobody picked up on the Python reference so I had to finish it myself.)

Jun-10-15  paavoh: Bolton - Notlob: why, that's a semordnilap if I ever saw one :-)
Jun-17-15  morphyesque: Post script to my post of March 12 2010, the games which were filmed were all based on Irving Chernev's 1954 book "The 1000 Best Short Games of Chess".Curiously there was a filming error of "There's Many a Slip" which portrays Andrews vs Janssens London 1864.In Chernev's book the correct score is shown to include the vital 10.bb5+.I love Chernev's pithy comment introducing each game.
Jan-16-16  zanzibar: Looks like Edward Winter will have to edit his page on Napoleon.

Thanks to <jnpope> and the O'Keefe project I've found another 1862 reference to this game (perhaps the earliest know thus far?), in G.B. Fraser's 2nd article in the <Dundee Courier and Argus>:

Fraser claims the game was play in St. Helena, about 1817.

I don't believe Winter makes any mention of this reference.

Jan-16-16  thomastonk: <zanzibar: perhaps the earliest know thus far?> No.

Winter quoted from BCM 1900, pages 53-56 and corrected a date for a source as follows: "This will be found reprinted in Waifs and Strays, the second edition of which does not give the date and place of first appearance of the sketch, but a footnote indicates that this must have been the American Chess Monthly, in which case the date cannot have been earlier than 1857 <[July, 1860, in fact]>."

That means, he knew .

Jan-16-16  zanzibar: OK, H.J.R. Murray’s account should be corrected.
But certainly Winter could have written a more clear account of which source was first (with the explicit quoting of material given in the original source you link, and not via this circuitous route:

BCM Social Chess (1900) unnamed reviews refers:

"Waifs and Strays" (2e unknown date) which contains a footnote referring to

ACM 1857

But no explicit citation, just a statement about the earliest it could <possibly> have been. I assume the 1857 used is the start of publication? And the parenthetical, [July, 1860, in fact] was introduced by Winter?

Why didn't Winter spell it out, instead of burying the primary source in an obscure parenthetical to an obscure footnote.

BTW - the BCM review contains this:

<To conclude, the game may very well have been actually played – by someone; but we suspect that the military rank of the winner was considerably below that of a general officer.’>

Jan-16-16  zanzibar: I just went through all the kibitzing, and no one has previously identified the source of this game, as played by Napoleon. So, our exchange documents, to the best of our knowledge today (I suppose), the sourcing of this game as attributed to Napoleon.

It's nice to spell it out explicitly.

Thanks for the ACM ref.

Please see this comment, and the posts it references, for the possible actual source of the game itself, with proper attributions:

Napoleon Bonaparte vs General Bertrand, 1820 (kibitz #108)

As I've said, <CG> kibitzing can be a good source of information - at less for suggesting avenues of investigation.

Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: This game has to be phony. 13...a5 makes no sense. Black could have defended with 13...Qxe5.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: Napoleon would never have played like this. 2. Nf3? <When you set out to take Vienna, take Vienna> indicates <2. Nc3> (a Vienna game).
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bishoprick: Able was I ere I saw Elba
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 7)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: ANALYSIS. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Nappy wins elegant one
from kevin86's favorite games by kevin86
Two Generals on an Island
from Famous people's games by Diggitydawg
from army6's favorite games by army6
A chess battle!
from Fascinating Games by clifton
Celebrities games
by Vischer
Napoleon was a great strategist and tactician
from cu8sfan's favorite games by cu8sfan
Napoleon versuses General
from Vagrantlike's fun games collection by vagrantlike
one of Capt. Kennedy's Waifs and Strays (1862)
from The dirty dozen by sneaky pete
King John 5's favorite games
by King John 5
Napoleon ( The French War Genius) Games
by Warrush
fmonteiro's favorite games
by fmonteiro
Scotch Game: Napoleon Gambit
from SCOTCH GAME INTERMEZZO by gambitfan
Scotch Game: Napoleon Gambit
from HISTORICAL GAMES by gambitfan
Chessman1's favorite games 1
by Chessman1
lemgelo's favorite games with white
by lemgelo
Beautiful games!!!
by Tamerlan
Now for something completely different
by Timothy Glenn Forney
checkmated games
by amtr
Historical Interest
by MetalPlastic
pre-Steinitz Era1:1861 or before
by Antiochus
plus 70 more collections (not shown)

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC