< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Apr-10-15|| ||Richard Taylor: I solved this once before. Qxf6+ has to be the move as you are looking for the old knights in the centre mate a la the one where the Q is sacked, is it Philidor's? |
I started working it out and then I remembered it looked familiar. I knew it involved dropping the knights back as otherwise the K races over to a6 etc
So, it just shows these ideas and sacs etc stay in the old noggin...
Very witty game? Arranged by the players?
|Apr-10-15|| ||PhilFeeley: I'm shocked! Queen sac on a Friday? Unheard of!|
|Apr-10-15|| ||morfishine: <9.Qxf6+> forces mate:|
(1) 9...gxf6 10.Nd5#
(2) 9...Kxf6 10.Nd5+ Ke5 11.Nf3+ Kxe4 12.Nc3#
I knew I'd seen this. Its game #15 in Chernev's "The Best 1000 Short Games Of Chess"
He also lists the venue as 'London 1891'
Cooked or not, the position is interesting.
|Apr-10-15|| ||Bubo bubo: Friday, but not that difficult:
9.Qxf6+ Kxf6 (or 9...gxf6 10.Nd5#) 10.Nd5+ Ke5 11.Nf3+ Kxe4 12.Nc3#
|Apr-10-15|| ||scormus: Nice elegant and instructive game and puzzle. Maybe a little too instructive - looks a bit like a training exercise. Still I do like the 2N retreat #|
Tuesday's remains the toughest puzzle so far this week ;)
|Apr-10-15|| ||morfishine: Philidor would wince if he saw this game. Pawns are the soul of chess, but thats pointless if your King is forced mated|
|Apr-10-15|| ||Penguincw: Ooh. Queen sac. I thought it was Friday today. :|
Anyway, my guess was 9.Nd5+ Nxd5 10.exd5 Ne5.
|Apr-10-15|| ||Caissas Clown: "Difficult" was managing NOT to talk myself out of 9.Qxf6. Normally I have little chance on Fridays , but this was quite simple.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Trying to make everything complicated this week, I came up with |
9.Qxf6+! Kf6 10.Nd5+ Ke5 11.f4+? (missing the simple finish) Kd4 12.Be3+ Kc4 13.Nxc7+ d5 (allows the dark-squared bishop to become a defender- ... Be6 14.Bxe6+ d5 15.Bxd5+ Qxd5 16.Nxd5 puts white a piece ahead) 14.Bxd5+ Kb4 15.a3+ (c3+?? Ka5 16.b4+ Nxb4 17.cxb4 Bxb4+ followed by 18... Qxc7) Ka5 16.b4+ Nxb4 (Ka4 17.Bb3#) 17.axb4+ Kxb4 18.Ke2! Qxc7 19.Rhb1+ Kc3 20.Rb3+ Kc2 21.Ra2#
Good practice for long-distance vision, anyway, even if this line does not have a hole other than the fact that a much simpler solution is available.
|Apr-10-15|| ||TheaN: Friday 10 April 2015 <9.?>|
White has black in a Legál-like bind with the queen still on the board, and starts a king hunt with <9.Qxf6! Kxf6 (else Nd5#) 10.Nd5+> 10.e5+? is not the right way <10....Ke5>.
This is the crucial position. White can easily go wrong with 11.f4+? or 11.Bf4+? which forces the black king to the queen side, but how much you analyze subsequent hunts, the black king is safe on a5 or a6. No, the mating net is here and now: <11.Nf3+! Kxe4 12.Nc3# 1-0>.
Ironically, the mate persists if the bishop on f7 is removed, and white has no single piece over the 3rd rank. The knights control the central squares, the pawns the 3rd rank and the c1-bishop, whom also has not moved, f4. Black accomplishes his own demise by playing f5 too early, which is the last square for the mate. It's a beautiful mate.
Why this is <difficult> is the tendency to play 11.(B)f4+ with tempo. Moving the Ng5 then looks weird, as it gives up defense of e4. In the position at hand, that is exactly what white wants. He gives up e4, but defends d4 and prevents black from escaping.
Ah well, another queen sac monday!..... wait.
|Apr-10-15|| ||TheaN: Okay, even after long analyzing I failed to spot <9.<9.Qxf6! Kxf6 10.Nd5+ Ke5 11.f4+?! Kd4 12.Be3+ Kc4 13.Nxc7+!> also works, on account of 13....Kb4 14.a3+ Ka5 (Ka4 15.b3+) 15.b4+! Nxb4 16.axb4++ Kxb4 17.Kd2!! which is a brilliancy on its own.|
click for larger view
Black can only delay mate an additional move, of which one is 17....d4 18.Rhb1+ Kc4 19.Bxd5#. More beautiful is a pass from black, 17....a6 18.c3#.
Instead, black should play <13....Be6!> which was what stopped me from playing it partly as well, but of course it's still easily won after <14.Bxe6+ d5! 15.Bxd5+ Qxd5 16.b3+! Kb4 17.Nxd5+ >.
Glad that 'missing' these king hunts I spotted the quicker and more beautiful mate.
|Apr-10-15|| ||Pedro Fernandez: Well, this puzzle was qualified as Difficult but it is not so hard to find the solution given that the black king is quite restricted, thus 9.Qxf6+ is the first obvious move and after this honestly find the mate is relative easy. But there is another interesting (and larger) variation by playing 10.e5+!?. In my OTB analysis I found the following variation (I can't assure it is totally correct as I spent just a few minutes). 10.e5+
click for larger view
...Kxe5 (another way is mate) 11.f4+! Kd4 (11...Kf6 12.Nd5 mate) 12.Nf3+ Kc5 (unique)
click for larger view
.Be3+ Kb4 (unique)14.Nd5+! Kc4 (14...Kb5 will be played next) 15.Nd2+ Kb5 16.Nc3+
click for larger view
This position is quiet complex, 16...Kb4 leads to mate in the following alternative: 17.a3+ Ka5 18.b4+ Ka6 19.b5+ Ka5 (unique) 20.Nb3 mate.
click for larger view
A complete study beginning with 10.e5+ requires a lot of time, though I repeat, the correct solution is not too hard to find out it.
|Apr-10-15|| ||Pballa: Wow, I went down a path lol. I still think it works. Maybe someone with an engine handy can check it for me.|
9. Qxf6+ Kxf6 10. Nd5+ Ke5 11. f4+ Kd4 12. Be3+ Kc4 13. Nxc7+ d5 14. Bxd5+ Kb4 15. a3+ Ka4 16. b3+ Ka5 17. b4+ Nxb4 18. axb4+ Kxb4 19. 0-0 Kc3 20. Rab1 Ba4 21. Nb5+ Kxc2 22. Rfc1+ Kd3 23. Rc3+ Ke2 24. Rb2+ Kd1 25. Rd2+ Ke1 26. Rc1+ Bd1 27. Rcxd1#
|Apr-10-15|| ||whiteshark: When the ♘♘pair is at its best.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Pballa: Wow, I went down a path lol.> Been there, done that. 19.Ke2 should make the path a bit easier, but I haven't checked using an engine yet.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||Pedro Fernandez: Interesting your variation <Pballa>. Well, I considered the alternative 13...Kb4 (instead your move 13...d5) and leads to mate at the move 17. It is not necessary a machine as almost all the moves are obligated. However you're playing the solution move 10.Nd5+ so that a longer mate doesn't make much sense. By curiosity I have studied the alternative move 10.e5+!? (instead of the right 10.Nd5+). After I did post my OTB analysis (incomplete!), by curiosity I used my Stockfish_x64 and it announces +M9.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||kevin86: The knights advance to attack and retreat to mate. The queen is sacrificed for three knight moves...and mate.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||Pballa: <However you're playing the solution move 10.Nd5+ so that a longer mate doesn't make much sense.>|
I'm not offering my line as a solution. I'm just saying that's what I calculated before I saw what was played in the game. I posted to see if my variation led to a forced mate. Obviously what was played in the actual game is the best line.
|Apr-10-15|| ||chrisowen: Skims f6 offer tile ground as boot around.
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|Apr-10-15|| ||chrisowen: Aim dead in it now ave inter focus flight
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|Apr-10-15|| ||Eduardo Leon: <9.♕xf6+ ♔xf6 10.♘d5+ ♔e5>|
I got stuck here for quite a while, trying to make 11.♗f4+ work:
A. 11...♔d4 12.0-0-0+? ♔c5!, and the black king escapes.
B. 12.♗e3+ ♔c4 13.♘c3+? d5 14.♗xd5+ ♔b4 15.a3+ ♔a5 16.b4+ ♔a6! 17.b5+ ♔a5!, and the black king is safe - certainly not comfortable, but he's a queen up!
B. 13.♘xc7+ d5 14.♗xd5+ ♔b4 15.a3+ ♔a5 16.b4+ ♘xb4 17.axb4+ ♔xb4, and, in this critical position, I couldn't see <TheaN>'s excellent 18.♔d2!. (One can only see so far!)
But, anyway, doesn't matter, because I eventually saw...
<11.♘f3+ ♔xd4 12.♘c3#>
Why make one's life so complicated?
|Apr-10-15|| ||Eduardo Leon: Incidentally, this reminds me of a game I played as a kid, in which I lost the queen earlier than move 10 - it wasn't a sacrifice, just me being careless. Nevertheless, I won by mating with the four minor pieces, earlier than move 20.|
Of course, my adult self would've resigned immediately after losing the queen. It's almost unbelievable how growing up tends to make one less confident about their own chances.
|Apr-10-15|| ||poachedeggs: Wow...FIVE white pieces mate the black king on e4.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||Pedro Fernandez: Well <Pballa> indeed I was a bit unfair with you since the fact that you found the right move 10.Nd5+ and afterwards a variation which leads to mate too, by no means it is a "loss of time" since it have theoretical value, no doubt! So my apologizes.|
|Apr-11-15|| ||patzer2: Here's a look at a few key moves in the Friday puzzle game (9. ?) with Deep Fritz 14:|
<3...f5?> This gives White a clear and strong advantage. Better was 3...Nc6 =, 3...Nf6 = or 3...Be7 =.
<4. d4!> After this reply, Black's game goes down hill as he can no longer equalize against strong play.
<4...Nf6?!> Objectively stronger was 4...exd4 or 4...Nc6 , but this would have worked out OK if Black had followed up with a stronger move on his next turn.
<5. Nc3!?> This worked out OK due only to Black's weak reply. Stronger is the Fritz recommendation 5. Ng5! d5 6. exd5 e4 7. Nc3 Qd6 8. Qe2 h6 9. Nh3 to .
<5... exd4 6. Qxd4 Bd7?> This practically loses. Instead Black has an even game after 6... Nc6 7. Qe3 fxe4 =.
<7. Ng5> Fritz prefers 7. e5! , but 7. Ng5 might be sufficient against stronger play.
<7...Nc6??> Necessary was 7...Qe7 8. Bf7+ . Now it's mate-in-five after <8. Bf7+ Ke7 9. Qxf6+ Kxf6 10. Nd5+ Ke5 11. Nf3+ Kxe4 12. Nc3#>
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