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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-18-05 | | RookFile: I don't know why it is felt that
Lococo fell behind early, when
11.... Nxf7 might have won the game
for him.
Then in the game, after the incorrect 12. Qh5+ by Fischer (12. d6+ should win) 12.. N7g6 is a slight advantage for black, rather than 12... Kg8 |
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| Aug-18-05 | | vinohradska: Check out this score sheet from the same tournament:
http://www.geocities.com/bprice1949...
I wonder what the score sheet from this game looked like? I would guess that "Robert James Fischer vs A Lococo" is dubious at best, and fictional at worst. It just doesn't seem to make sense. |
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| Aug-18-05 | | briiian13: I agree with al wazir. Why didnt Fischer just play 14.d6+ ???
Not only white takes knight on the next move, but either the black queen or rook is going to be captured with check again, and then the black bishop is on a5 is gone too!!!!!!! What the heck is the matter with Fischer??? Is this a game to show that even one of the greatest grandmasters of all time can overlook a totally obvious discovery tactic that even a 1400 can forsee? |
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| Aug-18-05 | | vinohradska: Keep in mind that Fisher was apparently playing ~70 people at the same time. So who knows... |
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| Aug-18-05 | | MarkN: The earliest kibitzes said the notation was wrong, and I too think something is wrong, because Fischer would not have played 11 Nxf7, because 11...Nxf7 would leave him high and dry down a knight. Also, I dont think Fischer would have missed 14 d6+, even if the game is correct up to that point. I like what <geezerbloke> said, <so in summary, the sac was unsound, the defence was poor and> (that's because?)<the score is wrong. I am so happy we cleared all that up.> |
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Aug-18-05
 | | offramp: I wonder up until what poit did Fischer use descriptive notation. Was he still using it in 1992? |
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| Aug-18-05 | | RookFile: Bobby might have just played a bad game. He was probably playing 70 guys or something at the same time, after having just made a plane trip. |
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| Aug-18-05 | | ajile: Looks like the pawn sac was worth it.
heh
lol |
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Aug-18-05
 | | al wazir: <AgentRgent: At this point 15...Bxc3 is impossible, as Black cannot capture his own pawn.> Duh. Like Bobby Fischer, I am unaccustomed to algebraic notation, and freqently make mistakes using it. (He and I have nothing in common otherwise.) BTW, the only way black can hold his losses down to two pieces after 14. d3+ is by playing 14...Nd5. |
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| Aug-18-05 | | RookFile: You guys keep looking at 14. d6+
but 12. d6+ also looks good. |
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Aug-18-05
 | | Sneaky: One word describes this game perfectly: FUBAR!! |
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| Aug-19-05 | | iron maiden: What about Loco? |
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Aug-19-05
| | offramp: <al wazir: ...I am unaccustomed to algebraic notation, and freqently make mistakes using it. ...The only way black can hold his losses down to two pieces after 14. d3+...> LOL. |
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| Aug-19-05 | | midknightblue: Yes, I think that a simul could certainly have some pretty unusual looking games where both the titled player and his patzer opponent could play some pretty funky moves. I would tend to think the game is real, and just full of dubious and questionable moves |
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| Aug-20-05 | | sneaky pete: Of course it's not real, if it were, even at the end (moves 26/7/8) white would have missed the obvious knock out Rxe6 .. 3 moves in a row. It's just a warning sign against the obsolete descriptive notation, where one slight error may ruin the entire game. In this case, I bet the original scoresheet has 11.KtxP .. which should have been 11.KtxRP .. but was interpreted as 11.KtxBP .. by whoever made the transcription. Note 16.Qd3 ..: if pawn f7 were missing, Nd5 would be pinned, no need to guard Qc3 from attack, a stronger move like 16.Ba3 .. is playable. I tried to reconstuct the actual game with 11.Nxh7 .. etc, but so far failed. I'm convinced black played .. P-QB3 (.. c6) and .. P-B3 (.. f6), the last move transcribed as .. h6 here, and the white queen squatted at g3 at some point. Also: cg.com arbitrarily changed 19... Nf4 to 19... Nf6 in October 2002, whereas 19... Nf4 was actually played (20.Rae1 .. is to guard against Nf4-e2+xg3). What a mess. Poor Bobby, if he ever sees this page, he'll sue us all. |
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| Aug-20-05 | | RookFile: Yeah, I thought Bobby must have played 11. Nxh7, it's a logical move,
but chessgames has a later 17... h6
in this game, which obviously can't happen if Bobby has already taken the
rook pawn. It's a mystery. |
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| Aug-20-05 | | sneaky pete: <RookFile> My conclusion is: black never played .. h6; he played maybe .. P-R3 (..a6 or .. h6, but there would be no h-pawn anymore) or .. P-B3 (.. c6 or .. f6 depending on which bishop's pawn is still at base). A sloppily written <B> can be read as <R>. |
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| Aug-20-05 | | midknightblue: <sneadkypete> interesting points about moves 24/25/26, but of course that is water under the bridge. Fischer doesnt need to play that move simply because 'everything wins' after 21...Nd5? |
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Aug-21-05
| | offramp: See if this makes more sense:
Robert James Fischer - A Lococo [C52]
Fischer Simul Exhibition Tour Chicago, 22.03.1964
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 exd4 7.0-0 Nge7 8.Ng5 d5 9.exd5 Ne5 10.Bb3 0-0 11.Nxh7 Kxh7 12.Qh5+ Kg8 13.Qxe5 dxc3 14.Nxc3 Bxc3 15.Qxc3 Nxd5 16.Qg3 c6 17.Bb2 f6 18.Bc2 Be6 19.Qg6 Qd6 20.Qh7+ Kf7 21.Bg6+ Ke7 22.Qxg7+ Kd8 23.Qxb7 Rb8 24.Qxa7 Rh8 25.g3 Rf8 26.Ba3 1-0 |
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| Feb-19-06 | | MorphyMatt: <RookFile>Yeah, I agree, the whole game is loco. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | MorphyMatt: And Fishy |
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| May-11-11 | | sneaky pete: The problem with the reconstruction <offramp> made is that after 24.Qxa7 ..
click for larger view24... Rxb2 is overlooked by both players. I suggest that only two deviations from the score as given by Donaldson are sufficient: 11.Nxh7 Kxh7 and 17... f6. So after 10... O-O 
click for larger view11.Nxh7 Kxh7 12.Qh5+ Kg8 13.Qxe5 dxc3 14.Nxc3 Bxc3 15.Qxc3 Nxd5 16.Qd3 c6 17.Bb2 f6 
click for larger view18.Bc2 Be6 19.Qg6 Nf4 20.Qe4 Qd6 21.Bc1 Nd5 22.Qh7+ Kf7 23.Bg6+ Ke7 24.Qxg7+ Kd8 25.Qxb7 Rb8 26.Qxa7 Rh8 27.g3 Rf8 28.Ba3 .. 1-0 It is true that in this reconstruction Fischer missed a quicker win with 19.Qh7+ Kf7 20.Bg6+ Ke7 21.Ba3+ Kd7 22.Qxg7+ .. 
click for larger view
but anything is better than the nonsense we have here now. |
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Nov-30-14
 | | TheFocus: From a simul in Chicago, Illinois on March 22, 1964. Fischer scored +56=11-4. |
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| Mar-08-17 | | sneaky pete: Bobby knew what to do after 10... O-O as can be seen from
Fischer vs R Carbonell, 1964 played 6 days later. I rest my case. |
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Oct-31-17
 | | MissScarlett: John Donaldson's third edition of <A Legend on the Road> has the very same score reconstruction as <sneakypete>; there's no indication that it has been changed from the first (and second?) edition. I suspect John has been lurking... I'll submit the corrected score. |
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