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Martin Severin From vs Wilhelm Steinitz
Paris (1867), Paris FRA, Jun-19
Italian Game: Classical Variation. Greco Gambit Mason Gambit (C54)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
Oct-29-04  arielbekarov: With all respect to the Grand Maestro Steinitz, BUT where is the win here ??

I did just take a brief look, but I cannot see anything close to a win. Perhaps another 20 moves ?

Did they use a clock or anything else that showed the time ? This could be a reason. I am looking forward to, if somebody can enlighten me about this game, which is quite charming.


Oct-29-04  arielbekarov: After a closer look I see that most probably the black bishop will decide and the rook will take the b2 pawn.

So, now I have ansvered the question myself, because to continue a lost game is bad sportmanship, but I do still wonder, if From could have done something with his pawns, but I see it clearly. NO !

Any comment would anyhow be interesting about whether, there is any hope left for white ?


Premium Chessgames Member
  vonKrolock: <arielbekarov> The chances for White here were very remotes, although, in the practice, would not be totally despicable - IF the conductor of the Black pieces were not Wilhelm Steinitz in person! A possible line: 36.Rc3 Nd4 37.Rc4 Rb6 etc Black will win one of the West Pawns, and then advance the King in order tho attack Black's majority at East - this, combined whith a proper placing of his long reaching figures will surely undermine White's possible resistance and leads to a victory In the case that I were the White's conductor here, I'll surely try something like 36.Nd5, whith idea of Rf3, Nf6, Nh5 - speculating whith the possibility of a perpetual or even a checkmate, depending on the overall dexterity of my opponent, off course ZK
Oct-31-04  arielbekarov: Thank you <vonKrolock> !

Your answer will be helpful as I am trying to annotate my own games.

Indeed you are right !
It matters a lot that the great Steinitz is the opponent.

Is there a way to contact persons like you, for instance, when I have questions regarding analyzing or whatever can be interesting regarding this beloved art of chess ? There are persons that I would like to have more contact with, but as I don't have a computer of my own, I haven't give it much time in order to find out. Personally am I using "Arielbekarov" for playing on and other sites. Ariel

Premium Chessgames Member
  vonKrolock: <arielbekarov> I believe sincerely that's no better place to < analyzing or whatever can be interesting regarding this beloved art of chess > than! i frequent too whith its broad range of fine columnists, also sites whith historiacal themes like and off course perhaps the best for who consider Chess as more than a game is Tim Krabbé's You can contact people from the mentioned sites (like the famous Chess tutor Bruce Pandolfini in his Chesscafé column) to present Your views or personal contributions - but not whith the interactivity provided by One of the reason therefore to praise and bethanks the contributions here of men like L. Day and R. Keene ... I can state You too that i dont play Chess anymore - maybe some day i return, but You will not find myself on-line (nor probably in a real life Chess playing place) for the while... Since the nineties I was, in what regard whith Chess activities, more involved whith composition than whith any other matter concerning our common passion: when You realize that life is too limited ("ars longa, vita brevis") to perform all we desire an imagine, is better to concentre the available time in what we can make better - whith the remark that Caïssa is a Muse full of whims, and that she decides how and when we will find an original position, not ourselves... All You find here in the kibitings reflects my own views and thoughts, i'll continue to come here, otherwise (and it will be only for an hipotetical reason of lacking time or availability) i'll modify slightly my profile and include an e-mail address Best Regards ZK
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Those are very nice thought, ZK. I,too, play rarely now. But chess is part of my neural network and I cannot function without it.

I agree that this site here is the best place I have found for chess on the whole internet. Were you there for the WC matches? Even though the games were sometimes dull, they seemed interesting because of the brilliant kibitzing that was going on.

Premium Chessgames Member
  vonKrolock: <offramp> In those days i was not available for on-line real time kibiting, but - thanks for the hint - i'll read the kibitings there, and try to get Keene's book too
Nov-01-04  arielbekarov: Thank you again <vonKrolock> ! It is well noticed that you have a broad vision of life, where chess still plays an important part, if I have understood you correctly.

Tartakower said something like this :

"Every chessplayer need to have a hobby."

He didn't know how right he is (present time) !
We are so easily absorbed in this art, science and after all, also, a game. Needless to say that I love

<offramp> I was unfortunately unable as well to follow Kramnik vs Leko, but very interesting to hear your opinion about the brilliant kibitzing.

It is such an experience to play and study the games of masters from all times. To study the games of Morphy, Steinitz, Schlechter, Rubinstein ..., who are so important for todays chess, is something extraordinary ! It is like listening to old recordings in classical music, where one so easily can recognize violinists like Heifetz, Kreisler and Elman (I play the violin), and all other instrumental artists ... They had such a strong personality !
Todays violinists are fantastic, but hard to recognize. It's a little bit the same in chess.
That's why I hope that Judit Polgar will make her come back soon because she has this extraordinary touch of a great personality. Of course, we have today Kasparov, Morozewitch, Svidler ..., but I miss a Dr. Lasker about whom Einstein said : "One of the greatest personalities I have met in my life, but pity that he spent so much of his talent on chess." (Not exactly quoted word by word).

Or Réti and Capablanca !! And they showed such respect for their opponents. The beloved Michail Tal from our time had this greatness as well !

A rather long message, I think.

Premium Chessgames Member
  vonKrolock: <arielbekarov> Misha Elman was a passionate Chess player, as related by Edward Lasker in one of his books.For me Heifetz is incomparable - his performances are almost supernatural - as in some of his well known records: Beethoven Concerto (i dont remember in moment the Orchestra) and Bach Double whith Christian Ferras (this one of the more talented and one of the few really greats that i saw and heard personally) Another was Salvatore Accardo playing Paganini and Vivaldi... I saw some Years ago a video about an experiment in the study of the brain of a Violin player (more preciselly a young French born in Vietnam, sorry i dont remember his name - his tutor was from East Europe and a Chess player too, and Kasparov appears in the documentary ) Thanks for Your messages always whith very clear insight
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: There were giants in the past, but that doesn't mean that today's players are somehow inferior. The greatest chess rivalry of all time is recent--Karpov/Kasparov.

The same goes for violinists--I always know it's Gil Shaham playing before the radio announcer says so.

I'm getting rather "mature" myself, so I know how fun it is to think of "the gool old days." But modern times are pretty good too.

Nov-02-04  iron maiden: Karpov-Kasparov, the greatest chess rivalry of all time? I think it's certainly a candidate, but there are a lot of notable rivalries in chess history, almost enough to make a top-ten list.
Nov-02-04  iron maiden: Okay, so maybe there are. My personal list is on the Fischer page, for those interested.
Nov-07-04  arielbekarov: What I am going to write now has very little or no special relation to the game that the great Steinitz won. But, as a violinist and fervent chesslover I cannot let the beautiful words written bouth by <vonKrolock> and <Gregor Samsa Mendel> and the questioning of greatest chess rivalry of all times <iron maiden> pass without comments.

Heifetz !
Even the great David Oistrach said : There are a small group of extraordinary violinists, not so many, and Heifetz !

I did never hear Heifetz in real life, but he was the first violinist, where we can speak about human perfection in combination with a wonderful artistry. Two seconds, enough ! I know !

Jasha Heifetz !

Of todays great - Gil Shaham ! What can I say ? Amen !

It is indeed true that there are great personalities on all fields today as well, but, I think that we have to push for the personal touch in general.

The greatest chess rivalry !
I think the incredible meeting between Lasker vs Steinitz has a profound influence on today's chess. More than they realized 1894 !

Misha Elman ! I am not at all surprised ! Can we find any of his games ? Perhaps their are already to be found on I am a happy new premium member since yesterdayevening. I wanted to have a good start for this week !

By the way !
What about the five great Brazilians on the green field's chess? Another name for soccer.
Garrincha, Didi, Vava, Pele and Zagallo !
Only exclamation marks for such artists !!!!!
I was a very little boy, but when I am writing their names I feel just happiness ! Ariel

Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: I know little about music, play the viola slightly, but whenever I hear Maurizio Pollini play piano, I think of Lev Polugaevsky. Same intensity, and devotion to a repertoire.
Nov-07-04  arielbekarov: <tamar> You are very modest ! But, so are the greatest.
I have met some of the greatest musicians and they are so generous. They possess an endless source of inspiration. Viola is a wonderful instrument. I think we can start a little orchestra here on chessgames. I love the piano playing of Maurizio Pollini, and your reflection about him and Polugaevsky is very interesting. You encourage me to study his games as I am too unfamiliar to his greatness. Intensity and devotion !!
How wonderful it sounds !
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <arielbekarov> Polugaevsky created one of the sharpest lines in the Sicilian B96 which he chronicled in his book "Grandmaster Preparation", where he chronicled the agony and elation that he felt as his variation was challenged and revived for a period of about 15 years. A great book, also under the title of "The Birth of a Variation".
Premium Chessgames Member
  vonKrolock: perhaps the Chessgames Web Philharmonic can becomes in future a important Orchestra - only a matter of time to have the proper means to makes it true... <arielbekarov> Soccer (or simply Foot-ball as we call here) is really a great passion - in the era You remember, almost all good players came from teams from Rio and São Paulo - today is different, and the team currently leading the National Championship is Atlético Paranaense (; ahead of Santos (Pelé's team!) 2th etc PS: Atlético is from my city and their Stadium "Arena da Baixada" situated in the same Rua Buenos Aires where i lived my childhood, but i was player (Chess!) in another team, Coritiba Foot-Ball Club (brazilian soccer Champion 1985)
Sep-30-06  sneaky pete: This game is incomplete. Steinitz eventually won, but the remaining moves (maybe after adjournment) were not recorded.

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