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Wilhelm Steinitz vs Johannes Minckwitz
Baden-Baden (1870), Baden-Baden GER, rd 12, Jul-29
Vienna Game: Vienna Gambit. Steinitz Gambit Fraser-Minckwitz Defense (C28)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-09-04  Whitehat1963: But I'm Steinitz, I can't lose that fast with white. That's not fair, I'm world champion!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: Steinitz' play was just a bit too provocative here.
Nov-03-04  Knight13: Very well played, Johannes von Minckwitz! I wish you were the world champion in the 1800's!
Jan-19-05  GreenDayGuy: White probably should have gotten his bishop out and made his king safer before bringing out the queen. But I did love the last move by Johannes. Beautiful play by him.
Oct-12-05  Autoreparaturwerkbau: This game would make a perfect tuesday puzzle.
Dec-26-06  Atking: Well it was not Steinitz 's day not because of the opening but his last move 18.Kf1?? After 18.Kg1 the game is not as clear as the result says.
Sep-27-07  RookFile: Well, Steinitz could have tried this against Morphy. There's always the chance Morphy could have died of a heart attack from laughing too loud.
Sep-27-07  Kaspablanca: Hey! why today(sept 27,2007) post many steinitz games that he lost??????
Sep-27-07  Plato: <Kaspablanca: Hey! why today(sept 27,2007) post many steinitz games that he lost??????> Because <RookFile>, unfortunately, gets a bizarre and juvenile satisfaction from insulting and ridiculing some of the legends of the game -- particularly Steinitz.

It's not, it's <RookFile> picking out about 20 of Steinitz' losses and making fun of him, apparently frustrated that others weren't taking him seriously regarding his comments about Steinitz on the Robert James Fischer page earlier today.

Oct-04-07  RookFile: One truly has to admire 12. e5. A lesser mind would have played something like 12. Bd3 and 13. Re1, focusing on getting some pieces into the game.

After black's inaccuracies, Steinitz then followed this up with the dazzling 18. Kf1, allowing a 2 move combination with a knight fork on e3. A lesser mind would have 18. Kg1, with a clear advantage.

Ah yes: Wilhelm Steinitz: that true virtuoso of the open game. I can see why Morphy decided to stay retired. He must have been scared to death by the genius displayed in games like this.

Oct-05-07  Akavall: Steinitz's contribution to chess is one of the greatest. One poor game doesn't change that.
Oct-05-07  Plato: <RookFile>

Your stubborn persistence with these idiotic comments is unfortunate.

If you wish to make the argument that Morphy was better than Steinitz, you can do so without cherry-picking 20 of Steinitz' worst games and making fun of him in each one (and then denying it, to top it all off, as you did on the Fischer page).

In his early days Steinitz was known as "The Austrian Morphy" for his skill in open games. No less an authority than Anderssen considered him superior to Morphy after losing matches to both. He has plenty of great open games -- why don't you study some of them and learn from them rather than finding his worst games and making fun of him for them? Your attitude is so disrespectful it is despicable.

Oct-05-07  gregorivus: pretty, pretty, pretty
Oct-05-07  RookFile: Yes, isn't it though. Oh well. Steinitz's profound play in the open game has once again been proven. Would that we could all play like him.
Nov-05-07  mkrk17: Nice tactic to ignore, that too by a world champ.
Nov-05-07  psmith: <RookFile>
what is your opinion of the relative merits of Black's play in J Schulten vs Morphy, 1857 and M Hewitt vs Steinitz, 1866???
Nov-05-07  MostlyAverageJoe: <psmith> In the game you brought up, Morphy was 9 years old.
Nov-05-07  psmith: <MostlyAverageJoe> No, he was 19 or 20. His first games in the database are from 1848, but he was born in 1837.
Nov-05-07  psmith: Let me add that I'm as big a fan of Morphy as the next guy. But I'm also a fan of Steinitz. Much to be learned from both of these star 19th century players.
Nov-05-07  dzechiel: Black to move. Black is up a pawn. "Very easy."

At first glance it appears that white has gambited a pawn and has nearly trapped the black queen. But, after


white cannot avoide the exchange of queens. And because

19 Qxc4 Ne3+ 20 Ke2 Nxc4

allows black to keep the piece, white finds himself with a losing position.

Steinitz must have been a little surprised, I wonder if he ended up losing the game? Time to check.

Nov-05-07  gilbertblondy: 1...♕š4; 2.♕š4 ♘Ú3 gagne un ♗
Útonnant de la part de Steinitz !!!
Nov-05-07  willyfly: Black is already up a ♙ and has the move on ♕ sac Monday.

After 18... ♕xc4

the White ♕ is pinned against the ♔ and is exchanged viz 19 ♕xc4 ♘e3+ 20 ♔ any legal 19...♘xc4


19 any other move by White 19...♕xe3+ 20 ♔xe2 either way White loses a ♗

Nov-05-07  MostlyAverageJoe: <psmith: <MostlyAverageJoe> No, he was 19 or 20> OOPS, you're right.
Nov-05-07  RandomVisitor: After 18.Kg1

1: Wilhelm Steinitz - Johannes von Minckwitz, Baden-Baden 1870

click for larger view

Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp up:
1. ▒ (0.93): 18...Qg6 19.Bd3 Qe6 20.c3 d5 21.exd6 cxd6 22.Re1 Qxe2 23.Rxe2 Kd8 24.Be4 Rc8 25.Bf5

2. ▒ (1.08): 18...Qh6 19.Re1 b5 20.Bxb5 Rb8 21.Bd3 Qe6 22.h3 Nh6 23.c3 0-0 24.Bf4 Rb3 25.Kh2

3. ▒ (1.14): 18...Qf5 19.h3 Nh6 20.Bf2 0-0 21.Bd3 Qh5 22.g4 Nxg4 23.hxg4 Qxg4+ 24.Kf1 h6 25.Nh4

Nov-05-07  t3hPolak: ahh, such the heated debate. I love Chess discussions like these.
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