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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-09-08 | | hovik2003: <johnlspouge>
<Sorry, but I seriously doubt anyone on this site 'saw' the Bishop sac">I think you should speak for yourself sir, bishop was blocking h-file for white rook intrusion so it should have moved and best way to that was taking on g6 while queen on g-file and threat of rook check on f7(taking back the bishop to e1 or d2 isn't forcefull and gives black a free tempo. |
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Feb-09-08
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Does 23...Ra8 stop white in his tracks?
click for larger viewNow white cannot play 24 Rxf6 because of 24...Rxa1+, a forced mate. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | JG27Pyth: Found the first two moves... might have found the bishop sac otb, but I thought Qxe5 first when I first calculated this thing... my question is... how deep do you have to go for full credit? How deep did Kramnik go? It's darn hard IMO to calculate this thing to a win from the initial position. And no "oh it's obvious there's a mate..." because if it's so dang obvious why not calculate it, eh? Indeed, Leko plays on a good little while beyond the rook sac, so it wasn't obvious to Leko. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | DarthStapler: Saw up to Kg7 but not Bxg6 |
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| Feb-09-08 | | hovik2003: <Jimfromprovidence>
I think on 23...Ra8 white answers 24.Rad1 with revived threat of Rxf6 next and beside he has Qg4-Qe6+ and d6+ also. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | johnlspouge: <hovik2003>: "'<johnlspouge>: Sorry, but I seriously doubt anyone on this site 'saw' the Bishop sac.' I think you should speak for yourself sir>" If you read previous posts by myself and <rigel1503> more carefully than you did, you would see that I agree with your sentiment. (1) The colon and the quotes are a standard convention in English, and indicate I was quoting <rigel1503>. (2) My post previous to the quotation contained extensive analysis showing that both the Rxf6 and Bxg6 sacrifices can be foreseen, contrary to <rigel1503>'s quoted statement. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | hovik2003: <johnlspouge>
Ok now I get it what you meant, sorry! |
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| Feb-09-08 | | wals: Internal thinking black bishop pinned to the king,
white queen to f3, battery. covered by Rf8. or R or Q d6
not Q as Ra7+
24.Rf1 x Bf6...K x R 25.Ra1-f1+...Kg7
26.Q X e5 +
PM =
Well I got four 1/2 moves right |
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| Feb-09-08 | | johnlspouge: <hovik2003>: "<johnlspouge> Ok now I get it what you meant, sorry!" It is no problem. The following will give more practice in my modes of expression :) <hovik2003>: "I think on 23...Ra8 [White] answers 24.Rad1." I ran Toga II 1.3.1 on the move, and Toga changed its mind as its plies deepened, more than I have seen before. [plies 12/38, time 00:14, value +1.40]
24.Rad1 Rhd8 25.Bf3 Ra2 26.Be4 Rxb2 27.Qh3 Kd6 28.Qxh7 b3 29.cxb3 cxb3 30.Qh3 Re2 31.Rc1 [plies 14/42, time 01:19, value +1.52]
24.Rae1 Rhf8 25.Qf3 Rfd8 26.Rd1 Rd6 27.Qe4 Ra2 28.Be2 Rxb2 29.Bxc4 Kf8 30.Ra1 Kg8 [plies 18/56, time 16:20, value +1.72]
24.Qh3 Qd6 25.Bg4 h6 26.Qe3 Rhb8 27.Ra7+ Rxa7 28.Qxa7+ Kd8 29.Ra1 c3 30.b3 Qc7 31.Qf2 Ke7 32.Be6 Kf8 33.g3 Rb6 34.Qf3 Rb8 |
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| Feb-09-08 | | GoldenKnight: The easiest Saturday puzzle yet. I got it all within 5 minutes. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | The Rocket: the puzzle was at very difficult?, I saw the answer right away!(rxf6) anybody that agrees with me that it was easy? |
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| Feb-09-08 | | just a kid: Well I liked 24.Rxf6 or 24.Bxg6 as a sac.When I saw 24.Rxf6! there was no turning back.This Saturday was easy along with the rest POTDs |
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| Feb-09-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <johnlspouge: The following will give more practice in my modes of expression :)> John, instead of expecting others to adopt to your quoting style, why not use the convention that is used by almost everyone. To wit: use <> as quote delimiters. For example: <hovik2003: I think on 23...Ra8 [White] answers 24.Rad1.> or <hovik2003: "I think on 23...Ra8 [White] answers 24.Rad1."> instead of:
<hovik2003>: "I think on 23...Ra8 [White] answers 24.Rad1." |
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| Feb-09-08 | | johnlspouge: <MostlyAverageJoe>, in future, I will conform to standard style here. The reason I do not like it (besides quotes being the standard convention in English) is that when the quotes contain quotes, the colors do not distinguish the levels of quotation very clearly. |
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Feb-09-08
| | Jimfromprovidence: <Hovik2003> <I think on 23...Ra8 white answers 24.Rad1 with revived threat of Rxf6 next and beside he has Qg4-Qe6+ and d6+ also.> I think either 24 Rad1 or Rae1 ends up with white 2 pawns ahead. It's enough to win, but certainly more slowly than the text. So where did Leko go wrong?
Maybe on move 18 he should have sacrificed the b pawn in order to castle. So, after 18...O-O 19 Nxb5 Qc5, he's not in bad shape. 
click for larger view He's now safely castled and there's no passed pawn for white. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | dzechiel: Good job today <johnlspouge>, I'd say you solved the position completely! I should have realized when my line wasn't going anywhere that there were other moves besides 26 Qxe5+, but it was so tempting that I became fixated on it. Perhaps I'll do better this evening. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | znprdx: This is getting ridiculous -<johnlspouge> quoting <rigel1503> was in fact quoting MY response to same. And so I repeat: no one on this site, from the problem position, would have seriously considered Bxg6 and 'seen' all the nuances....( but self delusion is of course understandable - after all we understand the finest points of the deepest combinations - once they are revealed) And my evidence is obvious ...the fact that finding the right continuation from the final position was sufficiently challenging for many , not overlooking the possibility of several potential defensive lines which almost work and require precise play by White. Bxg6 was a >flying by the seat of your pants< move - with the odds of guaranteeing the draw. Kramnik is not now, nor never was in same league as a Tal or Fischer. Here, he was simply lucky since even a 'C' player could have fluked into this win without seeing anything. We have to stop presuming that Chess is about calculating. It is about risk taking and capitalizing upon the often unforseen effects of synergy. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | zb2cr: Hmmm. When usually successful analysts such as <dzechiel> and <MostlyAverageJoe> confess that they went for 26. Qe5+, and then got stumped, I feel a bit better for doing the same. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <johnlspouge: <MostlyAverageJoe>, in future, I will conform to standard style here. The reason I do not like it (besides quotes being the standard convention in English) is that when the quotes contain quotes, the colors do not distinguish the levels of quotation very clearly. <<<>>>> A trick to fool CG's scripts: append or prepend a useless 3-level quote, like I did above and now the two levels of quoting are clearly in different colors. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | johnlspouge: <znprdx: This is getting ridiculous -<johnlspouge> quoting <rigel1503> was in fact quoting MY response to same.> <MostlyAverageJoe>, I think your point about standardizing the use of quotations on CG has been made.* Your spontaneous suggestion for distinguishing levels of quotations will make me much more comfortable, while I conform to the CG conventions. <dzechiel: Good job today <johnlspouge>, I'd say you solved the position completely!> You are effectively complimenting your own abilities as a teacher, <dzechiel>. My thanks to you, for providing a model of how to calculate in chess. *<znprdx>, my apologies, you are quite correct. It was <you> I was disagreeing with. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | jambez: After 32, I don't see how white can win ? |
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| Feb-09-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <jambez: After 32, I don't see how white can win ?> Look at the 1st page of kibitzes. |
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| Feb-09-08 | | chickens0003: 26.Qxe5+ Kh6 27.Qf4+ Kg7(Kxh5 28.g4+ Kh4 29.Qh6+ Kxg4 30. Rf4#)28.Qf6+ Kh6 29.Bxg6 hxg6 30.Rf3 |
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| Feb-10-08 | | Illogic: <The Rocket: the puzzle was at very difficult?, I saw the answer right away!(rxf6) anybody that agrees with me that it was easy?>
Rxf6 is not hard to find but that's only the beginning of solving this puzzle. |
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| Jul-11-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-Move Final Score:
Kramnik vs Leko, 2000.
YOU ARE PLAYING THE ROLE OF KRAMNIK.
Your score: 55 (par = 41)
LTJ |
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Kibitzing
sac: 24.Rxf6