| Jun-05-04 | | capablancakarpov: 12. Nxf7!! , what a great sac, destroys all black defenses. |
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| Jun-05-04 | | maoam: But after 17. ...Qe8 18. Qf3 Qxe6 isn't white's game lost? |
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| Jun-05-04 | | weirdoid: <maomam> Agreed. Wonder if some wizard may come to show if we are right or if we missed something clever. I guess the best description of this game would be "fortune favors the brave". Still, it is amazing how this kind of disaster could possibly befall Velimirovic, whose nickname (IIRC) was "Yugoslav Tal". |
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| Jun-05-04 | | acirce: <after 17. ...Qe8 18. Qf3 Qxe6 isn't white's game lost?> Certainly seems so, and 18. Qb7 Nc6 also wins. I'm looking at 17. f4 Bf6 18. Qb7 Nc6 19. Na3 a6 and it may be here the wizard comes in somehow?! At least it looks not totally unlikely there is something there. |
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| Jun-05-04 | | maoam: How about 17. Na3 (threatening Nb5+) Kc6 18. c4; because after 18... Bxb2 19. Rad1 Bxa3 20. cxd5, 20. ...Kb5 is forced and I think white is better off. |
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| Jun-05-04 | | acirce: <How about 17. Na3 (threatening Nb5+) Kc6 18. c4; because after 18... Bxb2 19. Rad1 Bxa3 20. cxd5, 20. ...Kb5 is forced and I think white is better off.> Smart idea. You get the feeling White should not be worse with those pawns and that king position of Black's. But it's a very delicate situation with TWO pieces down. I can not evaluate it. What happens on 17. Na3 Qe8!? with the idea of drawing with 18. Qb7 Qc6 19. Qf7 Qe8, though? (Ok, chickening out, but..) Does White have more than that? 18. Nc4+ is possible and then 18...dxc4 19. Rad1+ Kc6 20. Qf3+ Kc7 21. Qxa8 Nc6 22. Qxe8 Rxe8 but unfortunately I like black here. I have some ideas after the suggested line in my last post; however, I should look some more at them and right now I must go to sleep but I will return tomorrow. |
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| Jun-09-04 | | acirce: A little later than I promised, but now me and my buddy Fritz took a look at this! :-) So what about, for a start... 17. f4 Bf6 18. Qb7 Nc6 19. Na3 a6 (for 19...c4 see below) 20. Rad1 b5 21. Rxd5+ Kxd5 22. Rd1+ Bd4+ 23. cxd4 cxd4?! (here there are alternatives, see below) 24. Nc2 Qc8 25. Rxd4+ Kc5 26. b4+ Nxb4 27. Qe7+ Kb6 28. Nxb4 Qc1+ 29. Kf2 Qb2+ 30. Ke3 Qc3+ 31. Rd3 Qc5+ 32. Qxc5+ Kc5 ..phew. I would say White is clearly better due to his excellent passer and active pieces. Do you agree? Now these aren't just arbitrary moves, most actually seem forced, at least Black's. I won't give sidelines to every move but a couple of them are important. So this is good for White, however Black does seem to have possible improvements: 23...Qc8!? 24. dxc5+ Kxc5 25. Rc1+ Kd6 26. Rd1+ Kxe6 27. Qxg7 and now 28...Rd8 seems like the best, when White may have nothing else than perpetual, while 27...Rf8?! 28. Nc2! threatens 29. Nd4+ and leads to a dangerous attack where for example 29...Rd8 fails to 30. f5+ Kxf5 31. Re1! and Black can't defend against the threats because he let the knight come too close. If White tries the same idea on 28...Rd8 it will be the spectacular line with echo themes 29. f5+ Kxf5 30. Re1 Re8! 31. g4+ Kf4 32. Qxh6 Kxg4 33. Rf1 Rf8!! (almost the same position moved one file to the right). If instead 23..c4!? 24. Nxb5 axb5 25. Qxb5+ Kxe6! (25...Kd6? 26. d5 Ne7 27. Qb4+ Kc7 28. Rd4 Ra6 29. Rxc4+ Nc6 30. Qb5 and it is an insane position but I don't think White is worse) 26. Qxc6+ and now not 26...Kf5?? 27. g4! Kxg4 (27...Kxf4 28. Rf1+ when after 28...Ke3 there are many mates and after 28...Kxg4 fastest is 29. h3+) 28. Qg6+ Kh4 29. h3! (threatening mate) Qd7 30. f5! h5 31. d5! and mate after 32. Rd4+ can't be stopped. Therefore I guess 26...Ke7 is best and after looking at the position for a while it SEEMS that Black should be able to suppress White's pawns and initiative, and so should be better, but I am anything but sure. Anyone who has an opinion, please share! |
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| Jun-09-04 | | acirce: (continued)
Finally, back to the main line and 19...c4!? instead. We may have 20. Rad1 Qc8 (20...Kc5 21. Nxc4 Qc8 22. Ne3 transposes) 21. Nxc4+ Kc5 22. Ne3! threatening mate. Two possible defences, 22...d4 and 22...Rd8. If a) 22...d4?! the best I've found for White is 23. Qf7! dxe3? 24. Qh5+ and if now 24...g5 so 25. fxg5 Be5 26. b4+! Kb5 27. Qe2+ Ka4 28. Qc2+ Kb5 29. Rd5+ Ka6 30. b5+ Kb7 31. bxc6+ winning. Black can play better in this line by returning material but White is clearly better also then. However, after 23. Qf7, 23...Ne7! is better; then 24. Qh5+ and after 24...Kc6 25. Qf3+ or 24...Kd6 25. f5 White seems to have such a strong initiative that it more than enough weighs up the small material deficit. If instead b) 22...Rd8 White has 23. b4+ Kb5 24. Rxd5+ Rxd5 25. c4+ Kxb4 26. Qxc8 Rxc8 27. cxd5 but here Black must be better after 27...Nd4; due to his well-placed and active pieces the passed pawns cannot compensate. White may avoid queen exchange, try 23. Qf7!? Ne7 and hope that there is a way to exploit Black's king position; White's queen is awkwardly placed too though and I see no such way. 22...Rd8 would seem better in that case. But what if, after 19...c4!? White immediately sacrifices: 20. Nxc4+!? dxc4 21. Rad1+!
21...Bd4+? fails, 22. Rxd4+ Nxd4 23. Rd1 with winning attack, so 21...Nd4 or 21...Kc5 must be tried. 21...Kc5 allows 22. Rxd8 with approximate material equality and White should at least not be worse.
21...Nd4 is probably the best answer and now we have another insanely unclear position but it seems to me that with a line such as 22. f5 Qc7 23. Qe4 Ke7 24. cxd4 Rhd8 Black blocks White's pawns, neutralizes his initiative and keeps the material advantage. It may, however, prove impossible to break down White's position; I don't know! But to sum up, Black seems in this very preliminary analysis to have the better chances in the 17. f4 line because if 19...c4 fails after 20. Nxc4+ dxc4 21. Rad1+ Nd4 or 20. Rad1 Qc8 21. Nxc4+ Kc5 22. Ne3 Rd8, that is: White has an improvement or my judgement is flawed, there is also the possibility of 23...c4 if THAT works. Maybe White should just go for the drawing possibility hinted at Jun 05... :-) |
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| Dec-08-04 | | aw1988: This is a very tempting game to analyze... yet I already have many more "hopefuls" on the list... perhaps I should make a game collection just to remember them all. |
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| Feb-05-07 | | gauer: What moves generally constitute the Spielmann Indian line (say, as opposed to the Benoni)? I'd heard of Janowski Indian, the Kangaroo, the Keres Defence, the Old Indian, the Benoni and Benko set-ups, the Blumenfeld, the King's Indian, the Queen's Indian, the Nimzo-Indian, the Bogo-Indian, the East Indian, and the West Indian categorizations (and maybe even the Grunfeld / Neo-Grunfeld), as far as some of the 1 d4 "Indian" answers go. |
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| Feb-06-07 | | Sydro: The Spielmann-Indian is 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 followed by moves not transposing in to another system I believe. |
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| Aug-22-10 | | sevenseaman: Fast, flowing game, a masterclass from Lutikov. |
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Nov-23-21
 | | SteinitzLives: This game was voted the 8th best game of the year by Informant in 1966. Both of Velimirovic's stylistically uncharacteristic retreats to the eighth rank in the opening are a curiosity to me. Well, the Spielmann Indian never has really caught on any way. The Nxf7 sac for white is a creative jewel considering how little development white has, but in the hands of a relatively young Lutikov (who BTW gets a nice write up in one of Sosonko's mini-biography collection books) it was a great starting blow to a constantly resourceful initiative. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 12.Nxf7
icon.