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Wolf Meyer Popert vs John Cochrane
London (1841), London ENG
Italian Game: Classical. Closed Variation (C53)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-11-09  Deji: Nearly missed this one, then I looked again. I noticed at present, the king had only 2 squares. That's g2 and h1. So, a major piece checking on the second rank would leave the king with just one square to run to i.e the h1 square. So, a check while the king is on h1 would be a mate right? Let's see...ah yes. Ng3 would be a mate. Now we have our combination!
Aug-11-09  xrt999: a game that actually ends in checkmate, wow! Its nice to see that occasionally.

Please do not mistake this veiled passive aggressive sarcasm as any attempt to stir up some murky argument about whether or not to resign in chess.

Carry on.

Aug-11-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <LIFE Master AJ: Also called "The Silman Rule." (NEVER push pawns on the side where you are inferior.")>

Jeremy Silman also phrases this as a positive - you should attack in the direction that your pawns point. But that doesn't really help white here. So I suppose we could amend Silman to say that you ought to try to be stronger in the direction that your pawns point, or to try to point your pawns in a direction where you are stronger.

Aug-11-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Mate in three starting with a queen sac-reminds me of an open version of the smothered mate-or is that an oxymoron?

17...♕f2+!! 18 ♖xf2 ♖xf2+ 19 ♔h1 ♘g3#. The nimble knight first prevents the king's escape,then delivers the kill.

Aug-11-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <xrt999> Yes, but this was 1841. Ah, the good old days!
Aug-11-09  Waitaka: <wellons> I am not a chess expert, far from that, but I am trying to develop a method to approach tatically a position. Any comments from the real experts are welcome.

1. Enemy King safety.

What are the available squares to the enemy king?
Can I explore any weakness of the enemy king?
What checks can I perform on the enemy king? Any of these checks can lead to a mate?

2. Other picies weakness.

Are there any hanged enemy picies?
Any trapped or near-to-be-trapped picie?

3. Our safety

Are we beeing attacked?
How is our king safety?
How is our other picies safety?

If nothing is found, then we should try to develop and enhance the position.

Aug-11-09  Waitaka: <If nothing is found, then we should try to develop and enhance the position.> Easier said than done, of course. This is another method list... :)
Aug-11-09  Patriot: <Once> Well said. My approach (although I'm no expert) is to look at forcing moves in the order checks, captures, and threats both for my move and my opponent's move. It seems that most combinations start with one of these forcing moves and keep going until there is a gain in material or mate.

Train yourself to always look for forcing moves and you will begin seeing combinations like this OTB.

Aug-11-09  Deji: What happens is that when we are presented with a puzzle, the first thing we look out for is either a mate or material gain. This is because of the hint we're given - in this case by virtue of the fact that it is a puzzle. Some puzzles even tell us x to mate in n moves, or y to win, etc. These hints help us to look in the right direction. My guess however, is that if most of us made it to the puzzle position in an actually game, we would play the wrong move. Many of us are already good at looking for tactical elements (pins, forks, discoveries, etc). One of such tactical elements is the Mating Net i.e. a situation in which the king has no legal moves. If we added this weapon to our arsenal in our analysis, then we would likely have no trouble finding the right moves. I suspect that's what grandmasters do.
Aug-11-09  BOSTER: How I found the solution.
I looked at the diagram. Then I saw move Qf4+ (Patzer see check ...) and the reply Kg2 . The Pawn g4 is good protected-here you can get nothing. Then I looked at difficulty-1and 1/2 star and glance the move Qxf2. How I found this move I don't know. For me it was interesting to read <Once> comments and <wellous> question.
Aug-11-09  YouRang: A fairly simple mating combo, once you consider the queen sac.

Excellent R+N coordination by black to (1) force the king into a corner and (2) deliver mate there.

Aug-11-09  MiCrooks: Looks like the theme for this week is oldies but goodies :)!
Aug-11-09  karnak64: Got this one, I think, only because I knew it was a puzzle. Would I have seen it over the board? I wonder. But I figure if I keep doing these, eventually, yes, I will see such opportunities OTB.
Aug-11-09  muralman: Got it.
Aug-11-09  Operation Mindcrime: Got it almost immediately, but it's an unusual mating position that I haven't seen before myself. Nice puzzle. White played a little too eccentrically, and paid the penalty.
Aug-11-09  wals: The following may be of interest -

[Event "London"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1841.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "H W Popert"]
[Black "John Cochrane"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C53"]
[Annotator "Rybka 3 1-cpu (30m)"]
[PlyCount "38"]

C53: Giuoco ♙iano sidelines

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Qe7 5. O-O
d6 6. d4 Bb6 7. Be3 Nf6 8. Nbd2 Bg4 9. d5 White threatens to win material: d5xc6 (9. Qc2 O-O $) 9... Nd8 (9... Nb8 10. h3 Bxe3 11. hxg4 Bxd2 12. Nxd2 ) 10. Bxb6 (10. Bg5 O-O ) 10... axb6 ♗lack has new doubled pawns: b6+b7 11. Qc2 (11. a4 O-O ) 11... Nh5 (11... O-O 12. Rfe1 ) 12. h3 (12. g3 O-O ) 12... Bd7 (12... Bc8 13. Bb5+ Bd7 14. Bxd7+ Qxd7 15. Nc4 ) 13. Kh2 (13. a4 O-O ) 13... O-O (13... b5 14. Bd3 ) 14. Ng1 (14. g3 f5 ) 14... f5 15. Qd1 White threatens to win material: ♕d1xh5 (15. Ne2 fxe4 16. Qxe4 Kh8 ) 15... Qf7 (15... Nf4 16. g3 b5 17. Bb3 ) 16. exf5 (16. Ne2 fxe4 17. Nxe4 b5 ) 16... Qxf5 (16... b5 17. Be2 Nf4 ) 17. g4 ?? ♗LU♘DE♖ (17. Ne2 would bring relief Qg6 18. Bb3 ) 17... Qxf2+ Decoy: 18. Rxf2 (18. Rxf2 Ng3 Decoy (18... Rxf2+ Mate attack)) 18... Rxf2+ 19. Kh1 Ng3# 0-1

Aug-11-09  TheBish: Popert vs Cochrane, 1841

Black to play (17...?) "Easy"

Time for another queen sacrifice!

17...Qxf2+! 18. Rxf2 Rxf2+ 19. Kh1 Ng3#.

Of course, White can refuse the queen sac but still get mated in similar fashion, one move earlier.

Aug-11-09  VincentL: Strange how the brain works.

This I solved instantly, almost before I had looked at the pieces on the LH side of the board.

Yesterday's puzzle took me 3 or 4 minutes, and I had to go through elimination procedures, etc.

Aug-11-09  zb2cr: I wasted a long time looking at 17. ... Qf4+, trying to find a way to remove the Knight's guard on the Bishop at c4 to win a piece.

After about 1 & 1/2 minutes of this, 17. ... Qxf2+ came to me.

Aug-11-09  BOSTER: <Once> "I suppose the thinking is "examine all forcing moves-they may lead to something interesting". I'd say this is only the first priority in analysis of the position. I guess that thinking is very often dealing with method of trial and error, we use our experiences to find prioritising moves. As usual we begin "searching where all the indications suggested that something might be found" (sometimes according to Silman's Rules of Recognition). In game Popert vs Cochrane black giving up the Queen for a pawn forces a mate in 3 . My opinion that move 16 Qxf5 was very attractive trap.
Aug-11-09  WhiteRook48: got it easily
Aug-12-09  LIFE Master AJ: <Waitaka> My "Chess Check-list" might be of some help to you. (It sounds like you are already leaning in that direction.)
Aug-12-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: Tuesday (Easy):

Popert vs Cochrane, 1841 (17...?)

Black to play and win.

Material: Even. The White Kh2 has 2 legal moves, both light squares. Black has a forcing candidate, so further analysis is irrelevant.

Candidates (17): Qxf2+

17Qxf2+ 18.Rxf2 [Kh1 Ng3#] Rxf2+ 19.Kh1 Ng3#

Aug-18-09  LIFE Master AJ: Cochrane must have been a good player ... at least for that period.
Dec-28-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  HarryP: Nice!
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