Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Gioachino Greco vs NN
Miscellaneous game (1620), ?, rd 25
French Defense: Mediterranean Defense (C01)  ·  1-0



Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 89 more Greco/NN games
sac: 7.Bxh7+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: To flip the board (so black is on the bottom) press the "I" key on your keyboard.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-01-10  BOSTER: <Once> <Then I take a look at the bookshelf behind me...around 200 chess books>. How I remember once you said, that you had 300 chess books!
Nov-01-10  MiCrooks: The reason this is a Monday problem, and not one for later in the week is that this is a "Classic Bishop Sacrifice" a type of position that has been extensively studied and that it is expected that every chess player will know.

This example is extremely clear cut, as the alternative moves can be shown to lose immediately as well, but it still probably warrants a Tuesday instead of a Monday just because you do have to consider the alternative moves. Having the pawn on g5 available to stuff the escape square after the f-pawn pushes is a nice touch. It comes into play in certain lines of the Colle where White gets in g4, g5 to kick the f6 Knight away and then follows with Bxh7+. Not good lines, BTW, but ones that come up often enough in skittles games online.

My hope is that this will be a CBS week as exactly when and how the sacrifice will work and when it won't is often quite subtle. For instance, it is typically bad to have the pawn on h4, but in certain circumstances it is helpful or even necessary.

You also have to look at all possible reponses, as sometime the sacrifice works for two out of three but fails completely against best defense.

One of my favorite chess books is "The Art of Attack in Chess" by Vladimir Vukovic. It goes into the CBS and other standard ways of attacking the castled and uncastled King extensively. The early chapters on mating patterns and thinking in terms of mating nets and systems of related squares are incredibly useful. I recommend it to any club level player.

Premium Chessgames Member
  sleepyirv: Rather complicated for a Monday puzzle- Thought it might have been a spoiler, even if it was a Greco vs. the Washington Generals.

But since I instantly went for the right moves, I shouldn't really complain.

Nov-01-10  Patriot: <BOSTER> Maybe he sold 100 books...LOL.
Nov-01-10  parisattack: Poor 'NN' - Been playing chess almost 400 years and really not making a whole lot of progress!
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Gioachino rounding the slacks once again. Short game law nice rad rolling host 5.h4 apparent white shins it kingside.
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Coasts along NN digging castles but a gritty sandwich ampers, Bxh7 lope rig. Non sequitur kxh7 gives st reason for the cull de riguer book. Ill a nd5 6..ng4 hankered black not pate. Bald as a tire white socks it him. Umbrage cross posing elephant rook h1 and hes wobbling g6 in.
Premium Chessgames Member
  scormus: I thought it was a bit difficult, I suppose if NN had played Kh8 it would not have been todays puzzle? But I suppose its not just any old Monday, its the one after halloween. <CG> does that make a difference?
Nov-01-10  David2009: Greco vs NN, 1620 Is this the original Greek Gift sacrifice?

This time not even Doctor Van Helsing can save Black. Reference: P Charbonneau vs H A Hussein, 2008

But perhaps Crafty End Game Trainer can?

click for larger view

(Greco vs NN 1620, 7?) Link:

After 7 Bxh7+ Kh8! the win is by no means easy. White has the choice between 8 Bd3 remaining a safe Pawn up and hoping to convert the extra Pawn, and continuing the attack with 8.Ng5 g6 9.Nxf7+ Rxf7 10.Bxg6 Qg8 11.Qh5+ Rh7 12.Bxh7 Qxh7 13.Qe8+ Qg8 14.Qh5+ Qh7 (so the EGT is happy to draw?) 15.Qe8+ Qg8 16.Qxg8+ Kxg8 to leave with White to play:

click for larger view

(Greco vs NN 1620 Greek Gift sacrifice refused, variation 17?)

White has a theoretical advantage in material with RPPP vs BN but the win from here will be difficult. Link:

POSTSCRIPT: <Boomie: [snip] 7...Kh8 8. Ng5 g6 9. h5 Bxg5 10. hxg6 fxg6 11. Bxg6+ Kg7 12. Rh7+ Kxg6 13. Qh5+ Kf5 14 Rxd7!!> A very interesting and ambitious line: Crafty EGT defends with 10...Kg7 instead of 10...fxg6.

<Formula7: 7.Bxh7+ Kxh7 (Kh8 8.Bd3 loses a pawn)> Yes. Perhaps the best is the enemy of the good.

Nov-01-10  MaczynskiPratten: Rather a long Monday puzzle!

I'm intrigued by the 7...Kh8 and 14 Rxd7 line. After Qxd7, how is it mate in 3? I see lines like 15 Qxg5+ Ke4 16 Qg4+ Rf4 (or Nf4) and Black has 17...Kxd4 next move, so he's not (quite) dead?

Premium Chessgames Member
  Sastre: <After Qxd7, how is it mate in 3?> 15.f3 Ne3 16.Bxe3 Qe7 17.g4#.
Nov-01-10  tonyblanco: Nice kibitz from Once... seems uve got a real good imagination to visualize what happened some 400 years ago about this game... or maybe someone from this day just made this game to make a story? (or history)... a guy as imaginative as u?

Im a new guy here...the first kibitz Ive read so far is from Once...amusing! tnx

Nov-01-10  wals: Yes, a tick for that.

Rybka 4 x 64

depth 18 : 7 min :
Black blunder
(+7.88):6...Nd5. Best,

1. (0.88): 6...Ng4 7.Bxh7+[] Kxh7 8.Ng5+[] Kg8 9.Qxg4[] f6 10.exf6[] Bb4+ 11.c3 Qxf6[] 12.cxb4 Qxf2+ 13.Kd1 d5 14.Qh5 Qxd4+ 15.Bd2 Qd3 16.Qe2 Qxe2+ 17.Kxe2[] e5 18.Na3 Bg4+ 19.Ke1 e4 20.b5 Ne5 21.Be3 a6

2. (1.82): 6...h6 7.exf6[] Bxf6 8.c3 d6 9.Nbd2 e5 10.dxe5 Re8 11.0-0 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 dxe5 13.Qa4 c6 14.Bc2 Bxh4 15.Nf3 Bf6 16.Qe4 g6 17.Bxh6 Bf5 18.Qe2 e4 19.Nd2 e3

Nov-01-10  muralman: This is a Monday puzzle? Figuring it out was not so hard. It's just that I did have to figure out several steps, keeping in mind Black's options. It was fun.
Nov-01-10  dzechiel: <BOSTER: <Once> <Then I take a look at the bookshelf behind me...around 200 chess books>. How I remember once you said, that you had 300 chess books!>

That might have been me. I stopped counting my chess books decades ago, but I still keep buying 'em.

Nov-01-10  zabbura2002: pheww.. almost missed it because i thought white can only play 9. Qh5+ which can be halted by 9. ..Bh6
Then only i realized that 9. hg is a discovered check. Can't let myself miss a Monday's
Nov-01-10  EXIDE: Not sure how to proceed after 7--,Kh8. I would withdraw the bishop and put pressure on the black king. Otherwise I would be afraid of pawn move to g6, trapping the bishop.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <BOSTER: How I remember once you said, that you had 300 chess books!>

And therein lies a guilty little secret. But I think we're all friends here, and I'm not afraid to bare my soul...

The Mem and I have a rule about my chess books - I am only allowed as many books as I can fit on a single bookcase. An IKEA Billy, in white, if you are into that sort of thing. So a couple of years ago I was approaching this marital limit and there was only one thing for it ... I went and bought a bigger bookcase. Another IKEA Billy, this time full height. Six feet tall and wide as a pair of open arms.

And for a while all was well. But those empty spaces cried out for more books and little by little even the bigger Billy was filling up.

So what is an obsessive to do? Well, to start with you cram every available inch of space with books. You stick them sideways on top of the bookcase. You sneak them into the living room bookcase, in the upstairs throne room, in the pile of unread books by my side of the bed. You keep a couple at work. You insinuate some into the history section. And Kasparov's "How life imitates chess" goes onto the lifestyle shelf. And you even give some to the number one son to start his collection off.

But the awful truth soon dawns .. you've exceeded your limit once again. And that is when I came up with a cunning plan that would have even out-cunninged Baldric. I decided that I had too many chess books about openings I don't play. It was really about time that I was monogamous with my openings and not forever chopping and changing. So I took a brave pill and started pulling chess books off the shelves. I filled a couple of cardboard boxes full of the opening books that I should never have bought in the first place. And I hid those books in the loft.

So the running total in the Once household is indeed over 300 books in the collection, but only 200 in the "official" chess bookcase that sits behind my desk.

And then you look at the newly tidied up bookshelf and realise that you've now got a bit of spare space to buy some more...

Nov-01-10  Fezzik: Yes, this is the classic Trojan Bishop sac, but no way is this a One Star puzzle! White does win against best play, but best play wasn't shown here.

All those one star puzzles which won a Q or K in two moves are far simpler than this. This is quite a complex idea, as seen from the posts so far!

Nov-01-10  WhiteRook48: that was so easy
Nov-01-10  MaxxLange: too easy? show the fastest win after 9...Kg6, without use of a chess engine

chess engines were like 400 years in the future, when this game was played. This was all done with brain power

Nov-01-10  WhiteRook48: Oh, sorry about that. I wasn't claiming to be Kasparov or anything. And I never use chess engine, it destroys the use of creativity. This may be very tricky, but I'll give it a shot; I'll probably have the wrong answer. I apologize in advance if this post has offended you in any way. 10 Qh5+ Kf5 11 f3 Ne3 12 Bxe3 Nxd4 13 Qg4+ Kg6 14 Rh6+ gxh6 15 gxh6+ Qg5 16 Qxg5+ Kh7 17 Qg7# (stiff resistance by black, sorry if this post sounds stupid)
Nov-01-10  WhiteRook48: oops, sorry, change that to 13 Qe4#
Nov-02-10  njchess: The Greek Gift in all it's glory! Everybody loves a Monday puzzle.
Nov-02-10  LIFE Master AJ: <<<once> And then you look at the newly tidied up bookshelf and realise that you've now got a bit of spare space to buy some more...>

(your post - above)>

I have five bookcases in my living room. One was "inherited," the rest came from Wal-mart. (In a box, you have to put them togther.)

Ha, ha. I have three book cases full. As you said, one row in back, another in front of that, another group of stacks in front of that, books stacked on top of the books ... and on top of one bookshelf, stacks 2-3 feet high. (I pray we never have an earthquake.)

Doing it that way, I estimate I have close to (or maybe over) 150-175 on just one shelf.

My wife Julie (who died in 2008) came to an understanding early on ... she would not try to limit my chess collection, that would not be allowed.

I have moved many times, and also lost books. For example, in the 1980's, I lived on Longleaf Drive. When I felt there, I had to put everything in storage. I got behind on the payments, and everything was liquidated. They sold boxes of my books for $5.00 each. My room-mate Joe, was able to buy most of the boxes, but I did not get everything back ...

When I was in the military, I stored about 90% of my collection in the attic of one of my relatives. That house burned to the ground. Lost a lot of books, old magazines, etc.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Go Go Bishop Sac!
by ChessDude33
from Traps by MorphyMatt
Greco hips NN in 12 plus in a back rank mate.
from Games by jaigans
Mediterranean Defense
from Unorthodox Games; Unusual Names [ECO=B,C] by GumboGambit
Clue #63
from Holiday Present Hunt Solutions: 2007 by Penguincw
Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see,
from Яяoи caяa by CharlieLuciano
French, Mediterranean Defense (C01) 1-0 Greek gift, pawn wedge
from OTMSMTO by fredthebear
fr 1-0 12 drag
from 2010 by xfer
French, Mediterranean Defense (C01) 1-0 Greek gift, pawn wedge
from French Rubinstein, Fort Knox and Stuff by fredthebear
Meus Grandes Predecessores
by lenos
Gr1ndelw4ld's Classic games
by Gr1ndelw4ld
by uhialfil
greek gift from grecos early writing
from how to beat your dad at chess part 5 Dc31-39 by howtobeatyourdad
from First of Each ECO by Penguincw
zz85#__How to get away with Checkmate otb
by whiteshark
from Frank124c's Favorite Games--Thematic Sacrifices by frank124c

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC