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Emil Diemer vs Anton Schuppler
"Look Who's Coming for Schuppler" (game of the day Dec-13-2008)
Villingen (1937), Villingen GER
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00)  ·  1-0



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Given 45 times; par: 30 [what's this?]

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find similar games 1 more E Diemer/A Schuppler game
sac: 23.Rxf7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-04-16  mrbasso: No way! Tal > Diemer
Diemer mostly played against very weak opponents. Therefore his record is so good.
Premium Chessgames Member
  louispaulsen88888888: 12...Kt-B3 and castling and there‚Äôs nothing for black to fear. (Or the Stockfish move 12...B-B3). Nowadays the Ryder Gambit is not even fit for a blitz game. The notorious BDG is to be respected, though. I myself choose to transpose to a French Defense.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Knighthawkmiller: After 10...c6 white is losing.
Mar-16-22  Brenin: Easy, even for a Wednesday: 23 Rxf7 Qxe7 (Rxf7 24 Qxf7+ with mate to follow) 24 Rfxg7+ Kh8 25 Rg8+ Rxg8 26 Rxg8 mate.
Mar-16-22  TheaN: Agreeing with <Brenin> here, this is a bit on the easy side for a Wednesday, though it took me a while. The double check is crucial here, and that allows <23.Rxf7!> to work.

Black's mated shortly. 23....Qxe7 follows the game line. 23....Rxg7 24.Qxf7+ Kh8 25.Qg8#, 23....Nc6 24.Rxg7 Kh8 25.Rxh7# and pretty much anything else 24.Rxf8#.

I think the longest line goes <23....Ng3+ 24.Nxg3 Qxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kh8 26.Rg8+ Rxg8 27.Rxg8#>, as any other line would lead to faster mate.

Premium Chessgames Member
  raymondhow: Yes pretty easy, though it took me too long to find the double check 24 Rfxg7+.
Mar-16-22  TheaN: And I'm right, starting on move 23 it's #5; either with 24....Qxe7 or 24....Qd1+ (25.Nxd1 Rxf7 26.Qxf7+ Kh8 27.Qg8#).
Mar-16-22  mel gibson: Not too difficult.

Stockfish 14 says mate in 5.

23. Rxf7

(23. Rxf7 (♖f1xf7 ♘h5-g3+
♘e2xg3 ♕d6-d1+ ♘c3xd1 ♖f8xf7 ♕e7xf7+ ♔g8-h8 ♕f7xg7+) +M5/245 10)

Mar-16-22  saturn2: 23.Rxf7 threatens R7xg7+ and Rxf8++
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White is three pawns down.

Black threatens Qxe7 and Bxg4.

The bishop and the rook on g4 converge on g8. This suggests 23.Rxf7:

A) 23... Qxe7 24.Rfxg7+ Kh8 25.Rg8+ Rxg8 26.Rxg8#.

B) 23... Rxf7 24.Qxf7+ Kh8 25.Qg8#.

C) 23... Bxg4 24.Rxf8#.

D) 23... Nc6 24.Rxf8#.

E) 23... Be6 24.Bxe6 Qxe7 25.Rfxg7+ as in A.

Mar-16-22  Skewbrow: As this is a puzzle one piece is going to hit f7. A process of elimination reveals that the rook capture is the most potent. One of the basic variations: Rxf7, QxQ, Rfxg7 with a double check, Kh8, and then a rook smother in triply attacked g8 mates.
Mar-16-22  stacase: I love discovered attacks & checks. Double check is even better and 23.Rxf7 set it all up (-:
Premium Chessgames Member
  esteger1: I had the once-in-a-lifetime pleasure of playing a very similar combination at my local club:

Kolty Chess Club, 7 April 2016
Campbell CA

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Be3 0-0 6. f3 c5 7. Nge2 Nc6 8. Qd2 Re8 9. 0-0-0 Qa5 10. Kb1 a6 11. d5 Ne5 12. Nc1 b5 13. cxb5 axb5 14. Nxb5 Qb6 15. h3 Bd7 16. Nc3 Reb8 17. f4? Nxe4!! 18. Nxe4 Nc4 19. Bxc4 Qxb2+ 20. Qxb2 Rxb2+ 21.Ka1 Rbxa2+ 0 - 1 Mate next move.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: A case of "Patzer sees check, shouldn't give check." 23.Bxf7+? does not work: Kh8 (Rxf7?? 24. Qxf7+ and mate) 24.Qxd6 (if Q moves, Bxg4 and the pinned f7 B is a liability) cxd6 25.Rh4 (to unpin the B and aim at h7) Nf6 26.Bg6?! Here it seems White still has an edge but actually doesn't.

click for larger view

26...Nc6 (connecting the Rs) 27.Ne4?! Nxe4! (no fear) 28.Rxh7+ (Bxh7+? Rxf1+ and 29...g5) Kg8 29.Rxf8+ Rxf8 30.Bxe4 d5! wins: 31.Bg6 Rf6 or 31.Bd3 e4 or 31.Bc2 Rf2 or 31.Bb1 Rf1+.

So the best for W is 26.Bb3 Nc6 being two Ps down with no attack left (SF -3.8 at 33 ply).

click for larger view

Mar-16-22  parch: 23.R:f7 Ng3+

(23...Q:e7 24.Rf:g7+ Kh8 25.Rg8+ R:g8 26.Rg8# )

(23...R:f7 24.Q:f7+ Kh8 25.Qg8# )

24.N:g3 Q:e7 25.Rf:g7+ Kh8 26.Rg8+ and mate next move.

Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: I went v it out a Rxf7 garcon it v ablush v it v latch axiom so v it went v it out a vant dabs sham pg it vint it woofer it v i eco it c u quickly jar it z it v mads bill ph cyan ugly it woke it v tuff v it v jz it jedis it v i be fraggier it van it geffrey fang its v mc ye v it v aghast quash dandy oo bode x it v oe ha balance it vins oboe it v eh i ado it v flushed it v add gotcha v it v if i baby bubble ah i clapped it a v it v i no u flight it v chisel it v no elli t med it v c fide it v i chalice no lick v it v it sec dj foe it v i clam dem c lid cj as v it v cd hp fees it v dace it v i mad freed it v i sad it v u dupe it v helgi t proof mi lo v it jeep v sh lime it v hose it v i pj me dire v it v it v miles it v joe it ve ph i remedy it von yon push it v i clapper no v it app on rep lush it van c jade it v it lead oust Rxf7 it eel;
Mar-16-22  saturn2: 2.e4 is a bluff move.
According to the engine black could have had a 5.7 advantage by 10...c6. followed by Qxb2 and Bb4
Mar-16-22  TheaN: <saturn2: 2.e4 is a bluff move. According to the engine black could have had a 5.7 advantage by 10...c6. followed by Qxb2 and Bb4>

That's two separate statements. 2.e4 is actually quite well respected and rather surprising; even more so than the KG. The fact that Diemer was lost after 10....c6 is just because of opportunistic play from his side, not related from the gambit itself.

Even the Ryder has some merit: after 5....Qxd4 (the only real test) 6.Be3 Qg4 7.Qf2, White <is> far ahead in developmen and evaluates only about one pawn down. Given you're down two at that point, there's tons of compensation. I compare it to the sub-optimal defense to the Parham: 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5?! Nf6?! 3.Qxe5+ Be7 ⩲. White's slightly better but good luck playing that.

Ryder's worse, though. The setup is plagued by loss of time: counterattacks and slow coordination don't allow White to create really tricky situations fast.

Mar-16-22  Halldor: Fun to work on this. I started with 23 Bxf7+ but soon saw that 23 Rxf7 was playable.
Mar-16-22  King.Arthur.Brazil: Also another answers lead to mate: the simplest is 23. ♖xf7 ♗e6 (or ♔h8) 24. ♖xf8#, while 23. ♖xf7 ♖xf7 24. ♕xf7+ ♔h8 25. ♕g8# ; however, the King (me, naturally) liked this line: 23. ♖xf7 ♘c6 24. ♖fxg7+ ♔h8 25. ♖xh7# without which, Black could escape.
Mar-16-22  Damenlaeuferbauer: This game, which was played 85 years ago, but looks very modern, is the immortal game of my old friend Emil Joseph. The Ryder Gambit of the BDG is completely sound. Despite such titans as P. Morphy, A. Alekhine, P. Keres, M. Tal, G. Kasparov, and A. Shirov, my compatriot Emil Joseph Diemer was, is and will be the greatest attacking player in the history of the royal game.
Mar-16-22  Brenin: <Damenlauferbauer>: Diemer's "immortal game"? According to Stockfish's improvement on Black's 10th move, 10...c6 11.Be2 Qxb2 12.Rc1 Bb4 13.Bd2 Bf5 14.Nf3 Nd5 -+ -5.77 (24 ply), this claim is refuted by moving your namesake.
Mar-16-22  Nabbat: <Damenlaeuferbauer>: In what way does this look modern, the style of play that is, sacrificing so much material for activity is so early 90's.
Mar-16-22  whiteshark: <24.Rfxg7++> Once again a smashing double check
Mar-17-22  saturn2: I dont understand people that blame Carlson for his occasional !? opening moves and then call 2.e4 sound.

On there is user Skatesnyder from Germany. He likes 2.e4 4.f3 and 5 Qxf3. So I simply play Benoni against hin and after the my third move he gives up. Also with black he stops each game from the beginning. That is what I call a good sport.

I dont see the point of giving black an advanrage after the second move and hoping he does not know theory and makes a mistake. But also white players go wrong even at the third move by 3.f3? The answer 3...e5 gave me some crushing wins

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