chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Emil Joseph Diemer vs Klaus Locher
Lindau (1948)
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 31 times; par: 27 [what's this?]

Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 7 more E J Diemer/K Locher games
sac: 17.Qh6+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-14-05  Pawsome: What and unpleasant surprise Qh6+!! must have been for black! There are a bushel of these miniatures to be had by clicking on "D00" and then on "Diemer "
Dec-15-05  MorphyMatt: for us slower ones, how does white mate?
Dec-15-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: <MorphyMatt> Black looks to be in horrible shape. If the black king does not move, 20. Nxf7 would be mate. Since h5, g6 g7 are all controlled by white pieces.

Actually, I would probably say black is totally lost. Best possible move would be 19...fxe6 followed by 20. Nxe6#

Mar-24-07  kingbow111: I'd agree, Black has no hope...
Oct-06-08  TheaN: There are three mates in three, and a possible try that mates in one:

19....Qxg5 20.Bxg5
19....fxe6 20.Ne6 Qg5 21.Bxg5
19....Rf8 20.Nf3 Qg5 21.Bxg5
19....Ne5 20.Nf3 Qg5 21.Bxg5

Anything else that does not defend f7, removes e6 or hits Ng5 meets 20.Nxf7. In all variations aside Qxg5, add one more move for Qd2 Kxd2.

Aug-04-09  Hidden Skillz: black can avoid mate here easily, but one should point out that it is still a lost position. for instance, the best continuation would go as follows..

19... Ne4 20.Nxf7 Kg6 21.Rhf1 Rf8 22.Bxe4+ Qf5 23.Rxf5 Rxf7 24.Rf2+ Rf5 25.Bxf5+ etc..

Jul-01-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  dorsnikov: Diemer is one of the most "unsung" combinational players of his time. This guy would have given Morphy, Mieses and Blackburn a run for their money.
Dec-13-14  thegoldenband: Saw the main line, but what about 17...Kg8? I don't see an immediate win after that.

EDIT: OK, 18. Nxf7 looks to be winning, though it's a bit complicated.

Dec-13-14  ahistoricity: Goldenband, could you post a continuation for 17...Kg8, 18 Nxf7? It's a fascinating position...
Dec-13-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: Looks to me like the main line starts:

19 Nxf7 Kxf7
20 R(h1)f1 Ke8
21 Nxf6 Bxf6
22 Rxf6 Nxf6
23 Qxf6 Rf8
24 Bxg6+ hxg6
25 Qxg6+ Rf7

19 Nxe6+ doesn't seem better.

Black doesn't seem to have any great Zwischenzueger on Move 19, nor ways to trap the knight.

If Black deviates on Move 20 except via the other pinbreaking alternative ... Kg8, White will win the numbers war at f6, recover the piece, and have a nice position, in most cases with a pawn in hand.

If Black plays 20 ... Kg8, we have the same exchanges on f6 as above, after which 24 Bh6 threatens two mates, which can't both be stopped.

If Black plays 23 ... Rg8, 24 Bg5 threatens two mates, which can't both be stopped.

Returning to the main line, White is now down rook for pawn, but can continue

26 Rf1 Qc7
27 Bc5

The threat of Qg8+ looks lethal.

Dec-13-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: Oh. :)
Dec-13-14  consul: I'm wondering what happens after 19 .. Ne4...
Dec-13-14  Ray C: <WannaBe> 19. ... fxe6 20 Nxe6 isn't quite mate; Black has 20. ... Qf5, for all the good it will do him.
Dec-13-14  diagonalley: <diagonalley>: nul points :-(
Dec-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: I figured <17.Nxf7> was the move; When I saw the game line, I was reminded of a Lasker brilliancy from long ago

Clearly, 17...Kxh6 could not be played; 17...Kg8 was obligatory

*****

Dec-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: Hmm ... I wonder. I really do.

17. Qh6+ is the move that cries out to be played. It's the swashbuckling move, with just a dash of derring do. The white queen sac draws the black king out to be slaughtered by the massed ranks of white minor pieces. Ripped to shreds by a mob of angry peasants.

And in the game 17. Qh6+ does work. Black accepts the challenge and walks into the crowd. Regicide by commoners. Chilling.

But Fritzie is not so sure. He doesn't rate 17. Qh6+ as white's best move. Instead he gives a round of applause for Rhf1 and Rdf1. Morf's 17. Nxf7 is currently at number 3.

17. Qh6 seems playable but it is only immediately lethal if black accepts the sacrifice.

I'll leave Fritz running for the next few hours and see if he changes his mind.

Dec-13-14  Nick46: Diemer simply tears holes in Locher.
Dec-13-14  JohnBoy: Hurt Locher
Dec-13-14  GrandMaesterPycelle: Yes, I saw Qh6+, but didn't think it's the solution because black can avoid being a collaborator and play Kg8 after which I couldn't see a precise continuation.
Dec-13-14  dfcx: 17.Qh6+ must be the move.
A) 17...Kxh6? 18.Nxe6+! g5 19.Nxg5 Ne4
20. Nxf7+ Kg6 21.Rhf1 and black must lose a lot of material to stop mate.


click for larger view

B) 17...Kg8 is the better defense.
18.Rhf1 Bf8 19.Qh4 Nxe4 20.Nxe4 Qe5 and white is better but I do not see any quick win. And here Crafty rates white as +3.21.


click for larger view

Dec-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: I came up with 17.Nxe6 fxe6 18.Qh6+ Kg8 19.Nxf6+ Bxf6, but after the smoke clears, white has no compensation for being down to 2 pawns to now a piece and pawn.
Dec-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: After a couple of hours, Fritzie is calling it like this:

17. Rhf1 +5.42
17. Qh6+ +4.50
17. Nxf7 +4.17
17. Rdf1 +3.67
17. Nxe6 +2.78
17. Bd2 +2.31

But the lines are far more complicated than the game continuation.

All of which feels a little deflating. The game continuation is a minor sideline based on a mistake (17...Kxh6).

Dec-13-14  mistreaver: Saturday. White to play. Very difficult. 17.?
White's pieces are all pointing at the black king. Time to calculate 17 Nxf7!
This is very tempting, to destroy the shield around the king. I think black has to take the knight, moving the knight on f6 before is not possible due to the hanging bishop on e7.
So 17... Kxf7
Now white has many options. The most obvious is knight check, there is also the move g5 or the rook to f1 I am somehow inclined towards
18 Ng5+
Black should probably reply
18... Kg8
because 18... Ke8 19 Bxg6+ and then 20 Nxe6 is surely something he would like to avoid Hmm, now i don't see something that convincing for white and another idea fell on my mind. Can white go
17 Qh6+! on the first move?
17... Kxh6 18 Nxe6+ g5 19 N4xg5 seems to be devastating and if
17... Kg8
Now
18 Nxf7 Kxf7 19 Ng5+ Kg8 20 Nxe6 is probably deadly
Time to check and see.
---
Yep, i think i calculated it more or less correctly, although one has to admit that practicaly every move wins for whtie in this position.
Dec-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: <GrandMaesterPycelle: Yes, I saw Qh6+, but didn't think it's the solution because black can avoid being a collaborator and play Kg8 after which I couldn't see a precise continuation.>

Same here.

Dec-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <The game continuation is a minor sideline based on a mistake (17...Kxh6).> Well kinda, sort of a "mistake," but only in the sense that 17. Qh6+!! Kg8 puts up more resistance in a lost position.

Black is still busted after 17. Qh6+!! Kg8 18. Rhf1! , when play might continue 18...Bf8 19. Qh4 Qe5 20. Nxf7 Kxf7 21. g5 h6 22. gxf6 Qh5 23. Qg3 Ne5 24. Kb1 b6 25. Bd4 Nd7 26. Bc4 b5 27. Bxe6+ Kxe6 28. f7 Be7 29. Rde1 Kd5 30. Nc3+ Kxd4 31. Qe3+ Kc4 32. b3#.

The passive 15...Kg7? may be Black's biggest mistake. Instead, 15...Bxa6! to gives Black a big advantage due to the threat 15...Bxa6! 16. bxa3? Qxc3 .

search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00) 1-0 Q decoy sac
from 1940s Barious Beauties & Bonehead BBQs by fredthebear
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00) 1-0 Q decoy sac
from yFTB's Decoy II, Deflection from, Remove the Def by fredthebear
19 moves
from Game collection: 2 by PinkLedDoor
17.? (Saturday, December 13)
from Puzzle of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni
1838
from zz29_Remember 1838 (Ra8+Bc8 untouched) by whiteshark
19 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection VII by wwall
Gambit scrapbook
by Zorts
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00) 1-0 Q decoy sac
from yFredthebear's Knights Add Spice III by trh6upsz
17.? (December 13, 2014)
from Saturday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
BDG
from mofoman's favorite games by mofoman
17.? (Saturday, December 13)
from POTD Blackmar-Diemler Gambit by takchess
Blitzpartien
by shakespeare
Unpleasant surprise Qh6+!!, uncommon Q sacrifice
from Leearn Checkmates on the 3rd/6th Outer File by Patca63
Queen sacrifices- 2
by obrit
Hiko Seijuro's favorite games
by Hiko Seijuro

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2020, Chessgames Services LLC