< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Dec-10-04|| ||InspiredByMorphy: <clocked> Your right. Not only does 65. ...Qd6+ win the queen and the passed pawn, but a rook too! This obviously wins instantly. 65. ...Qd6+ 66.Rd2 Rxe1+ 67.Kxe1 Qxe7+ 68.Re2 Qxc5 0-1 Your also right about 71. ...Re5 . Black needs to promote one of the passed pawns on the g and f files, and leave the rook where it is. For example 71. ...f4 72.a6 bxa6 73.Rxc6 Rb7 and its a simple win for black. |
|Dec-10-04|| ||drukenknight: Not sure if 71...f4 wins, he brings the R back via Rh8+ yes? |
|Dec-10-04|| ||InspiredByMorphy: <drukenknight> 71. ...f4 72.Rh8+ Kg5 How
is white going to stop those pawns when blacks rook cuts off the
king from getting to the scene of action? |
|Dec-10-04|| ||drukenknight: I have no idea, just thought of a minute ago.. |
|Dec-10-04|| ||drukenknight: I think Rc7 may be better; so 71...f4 72 Rc7 |
|Dec-10-04|| ||InspiredByMorphy: <drukenknight> 71. ...f4 72.Rc7 is much better. Good catch! 71. ...f4 72.Rc7! Rh7 73.a6 bxa6 74.b7 Rxc7 75.b8=Q and white has a queen to blacks rook and 4 pawns. Materially speaking black should then have the advantage, but the positioning of the pawns is everything. The two isolated and barely moved pawns on a6 and c6 dont pose a threat yet, and if white can immediately address the situation with blacks f & g pawns then maybe a win is possible. It seems as though white would at least be able to draw. Black really missed a big move with 65. ...Qd6+! as clocked pointed out. |
|Dec-10-04|| ||drukenknight: yes clocked suggestion was very good. It's funny, if you play a lot of chess it's one of those things you see all the time. Forgetting to put the Q on another square that does the same job, that triangular thing. |
|Dec-11-04|| ||Calli: But with the Rook at c7, a6 as in the game does not work because the rook no longer guards the queening square. Therefore 71...f4 72.Rc7 Re5! 73.Rxb7 (if 73.a6 bxa6 74.Rxc6 (74.b7? Rb5) 74...Rb5 etc) 74...Rxa5 74.Rc7 f3 75.Rxc6 f2 76.Rf6 Ra6! 77.Kd3 Rxb6 78.Rxf2 Re6 with a book win |
|Dec-11-04|| ||drukenknight: what calli is referring to is ibm's suggestion of 73 a6 in that line which does not work. so the improved line has 76...Ra6 ! which is a new concern. |
|Dec-11-04|| ||drukenknight: Ugggh dont head for the seats yet...we might be here a while with this endgame folks, look at this one that just come out of crap program:|
72. Rc7 Re5
73. Rxb7 Rxa5
74. Rf7 (this move seems to be the first fork in the road)
75. b7 f3
76. Kd3 f2
77. Ke2 Rb2+
78. Kf1 Kg5
79. Rc7 Kf4
80. Rxc6 g5
81. Rf6+ Kg3
82. Rf3+ ?!?!
|Dec-11-04|| ||Calli: Your "crap" program pushed the pawn too fast without bringing the King into play. Continue with 75...g5 or even 76...Kg5 and even your program will realize that White is two pawns down and hopeless. Just advance the king and both pawns together. C'mon now this is an easy one. |
|Dec-11-04|| ||InspiredByMorphy: My earlier post is atrocious. 71. ...f4 72.Rc7 Rh7? 73.Rxh7+ Kxh7 74.a6 wins. |
|Dec-11-04|| ||drukenknight: calli maybe so, but I am thinking about white's 74th move. Is there any way to make this work?? |
|Dec-12-04|| ||Calli: <DK> could you stop posting fragments of thoughts "off the top of your head". Not a mind reader you know. |
|Dec-12-04|| ||drukenknight: what exactly is the criticism this time. A specific post might be helpful. |
|Dec-12-04|| ||Calli: Specifically
"I am thinking about white's 74th move."
What are you thinking? Its rude to waste other people's time trying to decipher what you mean. Either come forth with a specific suggestion or stop posting nonsense like that.
|Dec-12-04|| ||drukenknight: what's your problem? |
|Dec-12-04|| ||Chessical: <drukenknight> Despite your best efforts, Lowenthal's position in the endgame seems untenable:|
<71...f4> 72.Rc7 Re5 73.Rxb7 Rxa5 74.Rf7 Rb5 75.b7 (75.Rxf4 Rxb6 76.Rh4+ Kg7) <75...g5> 76.Kd3 Kh5 77.Ke4 Kg4 78.Rd7 Rb4+ 79.Kd3 Kg3 80.Rf7 g4 winning.
|Dec-12-04|| ||drukenknight: yes well. you may be right, the thing is I have no figured out what white's 74th move is to be. I posted that computer line w/ 74 Rf7 because it was amusing. maybe I should play 74 Rc7 or something...|
anyhow that is what I meant by "fork in the road" it is a pt. where the branching begins.
So let me think about that move and then maybe we can agree its lost
|Feb-20-06|| ||Ciolombianito: Why not 79 Rb6?
I just want to learn
|Feb-20-06|| ||tamar: <Ciolombianito> Your move works just as well. |
Chessplayers tend to choose the very safest way to win. Here Staunton goes after the c pawn first, as it can protected in 3 moves by the King, rather than giving Black the choice to play c5 after Rb6. Not that either could be protected, but the a pawn is obviously the weaker so should be taken last. Mathematically both ways work equally well though.
By the way I just noticed that Staunton's big error was 52 Qc3??
when he should have been routed in a King hunt.
|Feb-20-06|| ||tamar: Hard to believe Loewenthal missed 53...Rbg1+ 54 Rg2 Qd1|
click for larger view
Now White only has a useless discovery check e6+ and then can choose his poison.
One line is
55 e6+ Kg8 56 Qc2 Qe1+ 57 Qf2 Rxg2+ 58 Kxg2 Rh2+ 59 Kxh2 Qxf2+ 60 Kh1 Qxc5
and all White's pieces are gone.
Instead he let Staunton off the hook by playing 53...Qd1 first.
|Feb-20-06|| ||Boomie: 8. Bd3 looks wrong. Bxd7+ is better, trading a bad piece for a good piece. Best is Qb3 which makes black's development more difficult. Black must reply 8...Qc8 to avoid losing the b-pawn.|
|Feb-20-06|| ||Boomie: <Chessical: Despite your best efforts, Lowenthal's position in the endgame seems untenable...>|
Probably means Staunton's endgame is untenable as the analysis that follows shows black winning.
|Feb-21-06|| ||Chessical: <Boomie> You are correct I referred to the wrong player. |
Staunton was clearly winning earlier in the game but let his opponent off the hook, e.g instead of 32.Bxe7 <32.Qc4> Kf8 33.e5 looks crushing.
Staunton then blunders as <tamar> points out with <52 Qc3?...when he should have been routed in a King hunt>.
Loewenthal misses easy wins, such as <65. ...Qd6+> <clocked>, and the very simple <67...Rxe1+> 68.Kxe1 Qxc1, and
is then outplayed in the R+P ending
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