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Gioachino Greco vs NN
Miscellaneous game (1620), ?, rd 46
King's Gambit: Accepted. Salvio Gambit (C37)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
Jan-20-05  Jaymthegenius: Anyone notice that black has a HUGE advantage in this game! After 7...d6 it is all OVER for white! If I were White I would take the pawn at 9,gxf3,gxf3 10.Qxf3 with chances.

11...Ng8?? Oh my god! This guy had a chance to defeat a legend for his time, AND TOTALLY BLEW OFF THE CHANCE! Here is some guy that refutes the 5.Ne5 line, and totally throws the game!

Whites king is in a horrendous possition, I think there is a forced mate for black somewhere, I will just have to find it.

And one more thing: BOTH SIDES WERE UNDEVELLOPED! You just cant ignore king safety and development, and the great legend, who is perhaps on the top 10 of all time (relative to era) manages to do both, I know of begginers who quote the importance of development and kingsafty.

I would play 11...Nc6 What would this "great" do then?

(Greco does have some brilliant wins, but sadly, in this game I will call "blunderrama")

Jan-20-05  Jaymthegenius: Also, 8...f3 isnt a bad move, but I would play the Kasparov approved 8...c5, or maybe 8...Nd7 (which is probably wizest here)
Jan-20-05  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> <If I were White I would take the pawn at 9,gxf3,gxf3 10.Qxf3 > This line is disasterous as it allows 10. ...Bh3+ 11.Kg1 (Ke2 Bg4 wins the queen) Rg8+! and white loses. <11...Ng8?? Oh my god!> <I would play 11...Nc6 What would this "great" do then?> How about the simple 11.Bb5 rendering your knight inneffective. <I would play the Kasparov approved 8...c5,> Ok but you just allowed 9.Bxf4 which appears to lead to nothing more than equality. <or maybe 8...Nd7> Again, 9.Bxf4 . <in this game I will call "blunderrama"> Where did Greco blunder?
Aug-12-05  SEMENELIN: <Jaymthegenius > i also don't think greco had a blunder. But i do like the move 9. g3 Qh3+ but still it does not lead to anything. I guess White has the slight development than black and by the way Ne5 was a good bluff to force the pawn to expose the king!
Nov-23-05  Chopin: Greco is the master of the King's Gambit. Of course based on the assumption that this opponent existed.
Dec-12-05  DeepBlade: Greco was sharply observing tactical tricks, and I believe this game and many other games, are played by Greco, and not composed. I mean, so many chess players, so many tactical blitz games, I am absolutly positive about his games being existant. OK, I admit, Black may not be the greatest player of all time, but the games are fun and you can learn a lot of this.

About the game, I begun to doubt about the Kings Gambit, It really weakens the kingside. But after seeing some of Greco's games, im so exited to play 2.f4. Just look how he tactically (14.Nf4) (13.Bf1) attacks the Queen. My problem is also Blacks f4 pawn, causing some real problems on the kingside.

Dec-12-05  Averageguy: <DeepBlade> Good luck with the King's Gambit, but be warned that you will not have as easy a time in that opening as Greco did.
Dec-14-05  DeepBlade: <Avarageguy> True, but now I use the e4 nf3 setup (The King's Knight Opening), without the kingside weakness, and my pawn stucture intact. But I kept the Greco's Trademark Bc4/Bd3 Bishop ;) After playing tons of blitz and 10 min chess games op I realized, development above everything, just like Greco. I didnt saw Greco playing the endgame, which is my weakest point. I pull off an Légal's Mate on an newbie, and the second game he exchanges everything, and moves to an 5pawn+Rook vs. 4p+Q (me) both sides with opposite Bishops. I know how to avoid skewers and stuff, but I dont get the big picture in endgames. (I won actualy but with huge material loss)
Dec-15-05  Averageguy: <DeepBlade> If you struggle with the endgame then there are alot of good books on that stage which you might want to study. Also, look at the endgames of the great endgame players such as Jose Raul Capablanca andVasily Smyslov. Game collections by users of this site which you might want to look at are Game Collection: Capablanca's Best Chess Endings and Game Collection: José Capablanca's Rook Endings
Dec-16-05  DeepBlade: Thanks <Avarageguy>

You know, lotsa people start with the endgame, but nobody ever taught me those principles. I started with openings, and traps. Later I moved on to the middlegame, mainly tactical training. I have no idea on positional play and endgames. My play is reckless (not that reckless, but I have problems with converting things into an win. but I know how to develop), with a little tactical burst, and with some traps.

I also would like to have some information about positional play, what it means and how to use it. I would really appreciate it.

Jan-18-07  Rubenus: I think that 10. Ke1 is better. White threatens Nf4, winning the queen, and Qg2 is not possible because of Nf2, also winning the queen. So Qh5 is the only move. After 11. Nf4 Qa5+ 12. Nc3, white has a strong center and a lead in development. I don't think it is a refutation of the Salvio gambit. If someone knows a forced win for black, please say it.
Apr-18-07  MasterSavely: i think this is a game greco was teaching about poisened peices
Jun-08-07  jon01: Does anyone know a game where white's 10th move is 10. Ke1?
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Er, I know I'm not a great chess player, but after 11...Nc6, what if White simply plays 12.Nf4? It looks like the only way that Black can save the queen is giving up a piece by 12...Nf5+ 13.exf5 Bh6 to pin the knight. Maybe Black has some chances based on the exposed White king, but I wouldn't bet on it.

In fact, that's probably the purpose of 11...Ng8, to permit 12...Bh6 without having to give up a piece.

Oct-03-07  wolfmaster: Black's pawns may look impressive after move 10, but without any other pieces to help her, the Queen becomes surprisingly powerless. This game could actually have played this, as Black's moves seem realistic of NN.
Jan-28-08  wolfmaster: Another thing I might add, NN should have played on for a bit, because the material deficit is not huge.
Apr-10-15  MarkFinan: Great little game. I looked at Bf1 for 5 minutes and it just doesn't look right, I'll check it with the engine. I guessed all but 2 moves correctly and one of those I messed up was the Bxc6+, I accidentally tapped d7! So this is the only game in 2 and a half years that I got all but one (the Bxc6 doesn't count!) of the moves, right. And I very nearly tried Bf1!?
Apr-26-17  Yigor: Salvio gambit: Silberschmidt defense: Anderssen counterattack: it's similar to #21 Benavides-Saduleto (1590) game. 9. g3?! is an inaccuracy, the correct move is 9. Nf4! 9...Qh3?! is also an inaccuracy, the correct move is 9...Qf6!
Apr-27-17  Dionysius1: I bet this was a made up game. If it wasn't, where's the rest of the game score - a real game wouldn't be over at this stage? The material is pretty balanced - basically White's up by a Q for a R and minor piece.
Apr-27-17  Yigor: Yes, at the level of human players the game can be continued. Stockfish 8 evaluates the final position at approx. +1.
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: The earliest I can trace this game (so far) is to Le Palamède, v1, 1836, p279, where the game is given, from a poem dated 1760, and attributed to father Roman's defeat of J. J. Rousseau. The notes to the game make mention that it followed Greco (le Calabrois) up to Black's sixth move.

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