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NN vs Gioachino Greco
Miscellaneous game (1620), ?, rd 70
Latvian Gambit: Greco Variation (C40)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-20-05  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> <Nxe5 is a virtual refutation!> Another asinine statement. You provide no analysis to back up your words. Interesting how you provide a game in which your opponent didnt play 3.Nxe5. Also how your game involves a very weak 3rd move from white - 3.Qd2 - in which the database can find no examples of master play ... Opening Explorer
Jan-20-05  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> In the main line of the Latvian gambit, black not only expects 3.Nxe5 but welcomes it! Material equality is achieved shortly after 3. ...Qf6 Opening Explorer
Jan-22-05  Jaymthegenius: I have read in MCO that only a few lines give an advantage to black and usually white wipes out the whole kingside pawn structure with Be2,Bh5+,...Nxh5,Qxh5+,...g6,Nxg6,...hxg6,Qxh8. Hasnt anyone seen this pattern before?
Jan-28-05  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> You provide no move numbers. Please clarify.
Jan-31-05  Jaymthegenius: 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,f5 3.Nxe5,Qd7 4.Be2,d6 5.Bh5+,g6 6.Nxg6,hxg6 7.Qxh8 and white is better by over 5 pawns.
Jan-31-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthegenius> Utter nonsense, as usual. 3... Qd8-d7 followed by 4... d7-d6 and 7.Qd1xh8 .. are illegal moves. If you mean 3... Qe7 4.Be2?? d6?? your winning move 7.Qxh8 .. would still be impossible, but that's irrelevant because of 4... Qxe5 winning.
Feb-01-05  Jaymthegenius: I must have skipped something here, I meant 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,f5 3.Nxe5,Qe7 4.Be2,d6 5.Bh5+,g6 6.Nxg6,hxg6 7.Bxg6+ and black has no defense.
Feb-01-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthegenius> So you mean 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Be2?? Qxe5 ?! That may be okay for a genius, but it's not a line I would recommend to the general public.
Feb-04-05  Jaymthegenius: After 5.Be2 in this game 5...hxg6 6.Qxh8 wins for white,
Feb-04-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthefool> After 5.Be2.. in this game the suggested move 5... hxg6 is impossible. 5... Qxe5 might be an improvement.
Feb-05-05  Jaymthegenius: It is NOT impossible! and I meant 6.Be2,hxg6
Feb-05-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthefool> How can anyone not a genius understand you mean 6.Be2 hxg6 if you post 4.Be2?? d6?? first and 5.Be2?? .. followed by an impossible move next? After 6.Be2 .. (clearly white's only move in this position) play may continue 6... Nf6 7.Qh3 hxg6! 8.Qxh8 Qxg2 9.Rf1 Kf7 when black has sufficient compensation for the exchange. Theory suggests 10.Qh4 .. gives white the advantage, but after 10... Nc6 black went on to win in 37 moves in the game Readers Het Parool (Dutch newspaper) vs Lodewijk Prins, correspondence 1953.
Feb-05-05  aw1988: I believe the best move is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f5 3. Nxe5 Qe7 4. Nc4!.
Feb-07-05  Jaymthegenius: The best reply by white in the latvian is 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,f5 3.d4! This refutes the latvian outright. Because it is like the falkbeer countergambit, but with a developed knight!
Feb-08-05  misguidedaggression: That developed knight can be a problem... for example in the falkbeer 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.fxe5? loses to Qh4+. In your line 3...fxe4 is now perfectly playable, as it forces the knight to move with tempo and allows black the time to play Nf6 stopping Qh5+.
Feb-09-05  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f5 3. d4 black gets a solid position with fxe4 4. Nxe5 Nf6 . The Latvian gambit is far from refuted.
Feb-28-05  Jaymthegenius: Eric Schiller in Unorthodox Chess Openings has said that the Latvian Gambit is unsound, and I have to agree, black is far worse off in the endgame, often being down two pawns.
Feb-28-05  azaris: Well if Jay and Eric Schiller say something is true then how can anyone disagree.
Feb-28-05  Jaymthegenius: You must not forget that Eric Schiller is a national, life, and FIDE Master, so his opinion is quite valid on the matter of chess.

In this game, for example 9.Nc3,Qe5 10.Qxe5,Nxe5 11.d4,Nf7 and white will go on to win without too much difficulty.

Feb-28-05  Abaduba: <so his opinion is quite valid on the matter of chess> Eric Schiller may be the worst chess author in history. (I'd give you links to book reviews on him, but, they're already on his page Eric Schiller, which you should check out for a laugh). Aside from his sloppy proofing and unashamed plagiarism, "opinion" has included implying that Euwe was never world champion, that Botvinnik was WC in 1966, that the FD variation of the Vienna is due for a revival, and that the position W: Kc4; pe3; B: Kg4; pe4 is a forced win for White. Schiller has lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned, and so has Jaymthegenius
Nov-02-05  knightsillver: the openeings get better thanks to god
We dont make that mistake
Sep-23-07  wolfmaster: 8.Qxh8? was suicide.
Aug-01-11  DrMAL: I would be very happy as white against the Latvian Gambit with 2...f5 (Kings Gambit in reverse with extra move 2.Nf3) it is indeed very dubious at higher levels.

Greco clobbered ole NN five out of five with this gambit, showing how well it works against a lesser opponent. I would very much recommend it for a novice to intermediate player as it provides an exciting open game to practice lots of tactics with.

Although not played much, I think simply 3.exf5 is also a great reply for white, particularly if followed by 3...Nf6 4.d4 with the idea of 4...exd4 5.Nxd4 white's pieces are ready to fly out.

Premium Chessgames Member
  mjmorri: This game was played in round 70. They sure had long tournaments back then. Probably because travel was difficult.
Mar-01-21  VDizz: Holy crap half of this entire kibitz section is just pure pretentiousness
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