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NN vs Gioachino Greco
Miscellaneous game (1620) (other), ?, rd 72
Latvian Gambit: Accepted (C40)  ·  0-1



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Given 126 times; par: 32 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-30-04  Ziggurat: White is doing well here until he plays the mind-bogglingly awful 14. c3??. Greco, on the previous move, missed his chance to equalize, 13. - Nc3!.
Mar-03-05  InspiredByMorphy: <Ziqqurat> <Greco missed his chance to equalize, 13. - Nc3!> 13. ...Nc3 is not a legal move but I think you were referring to 13. ...Nc6 ? But this loses a piece after 14.Bxe4 . < mind-bogglingly awful 14. c3??. > I agree. 14.O-O was necessary.
Mar-03-05  InspiredByMorphy: A sample continuation to keep the game interesting could have been 14.O-O Bxd2 15.Bxd2 O-O .
Mar-13-05  belgradegambit: 5. B-e2 with check coming is best according to The Big Book of Busts (chess that is). Its complicated but white comes out on top.
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: "The Big Book of Busts"
You said White comes out on top
Huh huh, uh huh huh

I like - big - busts and I cannot lie

Mar-14-05  Runemaster: lol, <tpstar>! I remember that song - great video clip, too. Who was the song by? (I overlooked that detail at the time).
Mar-14-05  Runemaster: LLCoolJ - see, I was listening. The name comes from the small village in Wales where the singer stayed on holiday once.
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: Alex, I'll take Hip Hop Trivia for $300, please. LL Cool J had a minor R&B hit with "Big Ole Butt" in 1989, then Sir Mix-A-Lot had a major #1 smash with "Baby Got Back" in 1992 giving us that immortal quote. No ifs, ands or butts about it.
Mar-14-05  Runemaster: Thanks, TP - you're not just a pretty avatar.
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <runemaster> I think you meant "even" not "just".
Aug-09-05  Makofan: Of course this was known as the Greco Counter-Gambit before it got renamed to the Latvian Gambit. Greco plays the Greco!
Aug-10-05  Runemaster: <belgradegambit: according to The Big Book of Busts ... white comes out on top>

<tpstar: "The Big Book of Busts"

You said White comes out on top
Huh huh, uh huh huh>

I think I need to grow up, but this exchange just made me laugh all over again.

Aug-10-05  schnarre: Good one tpstar!
Sep-17-05  Jaymthetactician: 5.Be2 is a refutation of Grecos chosen line, after 5...d6 6.Bh5+,Ke7 7.Nf7,Qe8 8.Nxh8,Qxh5 9.Qxh5,Nxh5 10.g4,Nf6 11.h3,Nc6 12.Nc3,Bd7 black's in trouble.

Incredible how Greco missed this in his preperation, or perhaps this game IS notes for his preperation (explaining the theory of some of his games to be fictional, he'd commit the games to memory as preperation) Or perhaps he knew of 5.Be2 and only commited it to memory for when he played white against a player of the Latvian gambit.

Sep-17-05  aw1988: I know Greco is a major figure in (ancient) chess, but the artificial-ness always makes me shudder.
Sep-19-05  Jaymthetactician: Grecos opening book (IE: wing gambit, Fried Liver attack, Latvian gambit no post- Steinitz world champion or master would play these, with the exeption for Nimzovichs analyisis on the Latvian, which is why it has that name.) was horribly weak (exept wear the queens gambit, Giuco Piano, From's gambit,French, and the Bird are concerned).

But he never missed a mate or tactical shot, but having no time back then was easy to do so. I think this game may be a composition to either mis-lead potential opponents by having them play the Latvian (where Greco himself of course would play 5.Be2), or perhaps this game is a lesson for white to see what would happen if he isnt careful. Probably a real game though. 5.g4 is quite natural. In any event the incredible thing about this game is how Greco was aware of the concept of a space advantage and weak squares and diagonals, albiet after very poor opening preperation.

why 6...h6? Why not 6...Be7 or 6...Nc6?

Sep-19-05  aw1988: <Jaymtheinsane> Are you serious?????
Sep-19-05  Swapmeet: I think by now we can assume that yes, he is serious.
Sep-20-05  Jaymthetactician: But why 6...h6? Shouldnt you move pieces in the opening, especially after gambiting as black? 6...h6 allow's 7.Bg2 leaving white with the development AND extra pawn. Look at my refutation line above. My improvement 6...Be7 prepares castling kingside and develops a piece. Though white is still better. This game could very well be a composition, and I make compositions all the time for very deep preperation, and put oponents deviations as lines a, b, c, from a certain position (main game is longest). But this is how I do things, and where the moves havent been played in practice I have a computer play out the moves + have weaker deveation lines, also include seeminly reasonable moves that are really blunders so I can know how to and when exploit them.
Sep-20-05  sneaky pete: <Jaym> He played 6... h6 to prevent 7.g5 Nf6(any) 8.Qh5+ .. which would be very effective after your "improvement" 6... Be7? Tony Kosten (The Latvian Gambit, 1995) recommends 6... h5 7.g5 Nd5 claiming (black) "wins back the pawn with a good position", but then 8.d3 .. looks good for white. Black should have played 5... Qe7 (6.Nc4 d5 7.Ne3 d4 8.Ng2 h5 or 6.g5? Qxe5 7.gxf6 Qxf5 8.fxg7 Bxg7; lines from from Tiemann's 1989 book on the Latvian gambit).
Sep-30-05  schnarre: <sneaky pete> Is Tiemann's book still available?
Sep-30-05  sneaky pete: <schnarre> No idea, probably not. The (completely revised) second edition from 1989 (which I purchased in December, 1989) was published by the Walter Rau Verlag. Your best chance is a (specialized) bookstore with an extensive second hand chessbooks collection, if you're lucky enough to have such a store in your territory.
Oct-06-05  schnarre: <sneaky pete> Will probably have to check or similar sites.
Sep-24-07  wolfmaster: 14.0-0 and NN has no problems.
Jan-04-10  Sodayodadude: It's said that Greco's game are just analysis of openings, which means they were never played OTB. It makes sense to me, all of these blunders.
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