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Berthold Koch vs Yosef Porat
27. DSB Kongress (1931), Swinemuende GER
Horwitz Defense: General (A40)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-10-08  JG27Pyth: I wish I'd seen 26...Qc4. Found the text move, which is nicely simplifying. Being up a full piece would be nice, but I honestly think the stronger my opponent, the more likely I'd be to play Qxf3+... less ways to be swindled out of the win, I think. Black will be not just up the exchange, but if this plays as I think it does, there's the passed pawn on the sixth rank, and the white king can be cut off from defending the queening square... I think White's pieces will be all tied up, with little to do but wait for the slowish execution.

This didn't feel like a Monday, as has been noted.

... so I'm going to go see if I can beat Fritz, full strength, from the resignation position.

Mar-10-08  sombreronegro: Another game the proves there is nothing like a pin on the king which is like putting a lid on a cool pot. A pin on a queen is a bit more like a pressure cooker that must be carefully managed.
Mar-10-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <<JG27Pyth> wrote: ... so I'm going to go see if I can beat Fritz, full strength, from the resignation position.>

LOL. You don't have to tell us who won, <JG27Pyth> :)

Mar-10-08  GibGezr: <GibGezr: Huh. I checked the Queen sac first, but preferred g5, simply attacking the knight gaurding the f pawn.> <zooter: would probably fail to Bxd5 threatening a deadly discovered check by Bxg7. Notice that the light squared bishop of black would be blocked by the rook (after taking the queen) and hence white has time to escape mate>

Actually, no. It turns out my move is about as winning as the others, and the only defense is an immediate Ng2. Shredder 10 analysis after I play 26...e5:

1. (-3.37): 27.Ng2 Qxf3 28.Rxd4 Bxd4 29.Bxd4+ Kg8 30.Kg1 Rac8 31.Qe2 Qxe2 32.Rxe2 Rf7 33.h4

2. (-5.08): 27.Qd2 Qxf3+ 28.Nxf3 Bxf3+ 29.Qg2 Bxg2+ 30.Kxg2 dxc3 31.bxc3 Rae8 32.h4 Rxe1 33.Rxe1 gxh4 34.gxh4 Kg7 35.Kf3 Kf6 36.a4

3. (-5.40): 27.Qd3 Rad8 28.Ba5 gxh4 29.Kg2 h3+ 30.Kxh3 Qxf3 31.Qxf3 Bxf3 32.Bxd8 Bxd1 33.Bf6+ Rxf6 34.Rxd1

4. (-5.42): 27.Kg2 gxh4 28.Qd3 Rad8 29.Ba5 h3+ 30.Kxh3

5. (-5.66): 27.Rd3 gxh4 28.b4 Bb6 29.Qd1 hxg3 30.hxg3 f4 31.Rxd4 Qxf3+ 32.Qxf3 Bxf3+ 33.Kh2 Bxd4 34.Bxd4+ Kg8 35.Re7 Rf7 36.Rxf7 Kxf7

6. (-5.66): 27.b4 gxh4 28.Rd3 Bb6 29.Qd1 hxg3 30.hxg3 f4 31.Rxd4 Qxf3+ 32.Qxf3 Bxf3+ 33.Kh2 Bxd4 34.Bxd4+ Kg8 35.Re7 Rf7 36.Rxf7 Kxf7

27.Bxd4 loses right away, as eventually does the slight;ly more clever attempt 27. Rxd4:

(26... g5 27. Rxd4 Bxd4 28. Rd1 Qxf3+ 29. Nxf3 Bxf3+ 30. Qg2 Bxg2+ 31. Kxg2 Bxc3 32. bxc3

Sooo...I claim a win ;)

Mar-10-08  PinnedPiece: With this puzzle as a baseline, this week could be tough.
Mar-10-08  AniamL: It's an unusually difficult week so that we can fully unwind on St. Patrick's Day.
Mar-10-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The moves are not that hard,it's just the conclusion that's not as clear as we would expect on a Monday.

26 ♕xf3+ 27 ♘xf3 ♗xf3+ 28 ♔g1 d3+ 29 ♕f2 ♗xf2+ 30 ♔xf2 ♗xd1 31 ♖xd1...

Black is up a rook and pawn for a bishop and the win is clear,but not immediate.

Mar-10-08  YouRang: Today's puzzle clearly has 2 or 3 viable solutions.

I happened to find the text solution, which was pretty straight-forward given the strength of the black bishops and the discovered attack on the Q from the black pawn.

Mar-10-08  randallbsmith: A gentle suggestion to our invisible hosts at Chess Games central: any puzzle marked "very easy" that starts at move 26 and runs through non-trivial positions to 31 before the dust settles with one side up the exchange and a pawn might dishearten beginners. It disheartened me, who has been playing informally for decades, as i could only calculate 4 moves deep in this position, and couldn't pull it out even though I was on the right general line. Just a thought, humbly submitted.
Mar-10-08  GibGezr: In my above analysis, it is of course 26...g5 that I play, not e5. I swear, my fingers are all opposable thumbs.
Mar-10-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <Eyal>: You're right on both counts. After 11...cxd4 12. exd4 Nxd4 13. Nxd4 Qxd4, however, white also has 14. Nf3 Qf6 15. Bg5, which looks interesting. (If 14...Qb4+, then 15. Bd2 Qxb2 16. Rb1 Qxa2 17. Qh5+, with a mating attack.)

I would be willing to take my chances as white in this line, but your 12...Nf8 is a killer.

Mar-10-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Finding the right combination was easy today, as advertised--even if winning the endgame will not itself be "very" easy after the winning advantage is obtained.
Mar-10-08  wals: Noting think:- Build up a good head of steam and crack this one wide open.

Forward to TPOTD

if Qxf3+, Nxf3, Bxf3+, Kg1, d3+, QF2, Rc8

PM=

Hooray, three cheers a winner !!!!

Mar-10-08  wals: Berthold Koch - Yosef Porat, 27. DSB Kongress 1931

A FRITZ 11 2006 ANALYSIS V 1931

1. (-3.55): 26...Qd5-c4 27.Re1-e3 Ra8-c8 28.Kh1-g2 Bc5-b6 29.Re3-e7 Rf8-e8 30.b2-b3 Qc4-c6 31.Re7xg7 Kh8xg7 32.Bc3xd4+ Bb6xd4 33.Nh4xf5+ Kg7-f8 34.Qc2xc6 Re8-e2+ 35.Kg2-h3

2. (-3.02): 26...Qd5xf3+ 27.Nh4xf3 Bb7xf3+ 28.Kh1-g1 d4-d3+ 29.Qc2-f2 Bc5xf2+ 30.Kg1xf2 Bf3xd1 31.Re1xd1 Ra8-d8 32.Bc3-d2 Rf8-e8 33.Bd2-e3 Kh8-g8 34.Kf2-f3 Rd8-d7 35.b2-b4 Kg8-f7 36.b4-b5 Kf7-f6

(, 11.03.2008)

Mar-10-08  Duque Roquero: Not a good puzzle.
Mar-10-08  actinia: okay, how about the theme this week is: long but easy to calculate forceful variations ???
Mar-10-08  actinia: I like <johnlspouge>'s comment. A player could easily prefer winning a piece and continuing an attack on the opponent. In fact we would need a decision tree to determine which line wins most quickly, Qc4 or Qxf3.
Mar-10-08  uuft: I went with Qxf3+ and I intend to keep it that way. :)

By the way: kibitzing is overrated. Little joke here. lol

Mar-10-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: It was easy once I figured out that it was black to play
Mar-10-08  soberknight: I completely missed it. I had ...g5 instead to remove the knight.
Mar-10-08  MostlyAverageJoe: <Alphastar: <MAJ>... You value engine analysis too much.>

My original contention was that after Qc4 <white bishop is dead>, and engine analysis was used to make sure that there were no holes in the primary argument. The conclusion that <my proposed quick win (26...Qc4) appears to be superior to the line played in the game, as it does win a clear piece> was just a nice bonus. I also clearly stated that <the line played in the game might be preferable for practical reasons>, so I am not sure what is your objection.

<Alphastar: ... I myself would even say the game continuation is better than yours since it forces queens off and thus reduces white's counterchances to a minimum.> On the other hand, extra piece and a pair of bishops directed at white King is very nice to have, and several other kibitzers liked the Qc4 line as well. If you don't accept multiple engines' relative valuations in support of Qc4 as authoritative, then we'll just have agree to disagree.

The postion is way too complicated to determine which line results in a faster win, by either human or by computer analysis. Judging from the fact that exploring continuations of Qc4 results in quickly improving scores for black, while explorations of Qxf3+ stay flat, I would venture a guess that Qc4 wins faster, but of course, this is just a guess based on observing a mere many thousands CPU hours of analysess of various games, and not a proof.

In any case, the irrefutable outcome of this whole debacle is that there is no way that this was a Monday level puzzle, as it is clear that there will be no consensus as to what is the best solution.

<Eyal: ... I don't think 28.Qg2 deserves a "?" compared with Kg1> Ok, you got me convinced. Agreed. I withdraw the hasty "?".

<MAJ: I'll let run the infnity analysis overnight...> It did not get anywhere as deep as I hoped, confirming the high complexity of the position. Mere 22 plies after 72 CPU hours, with Qc4 valued about a pawn better for the black than Qxf3+.

Mar-10-08  sleepyirv: Odd for a Monday puzzle, even if it's a Queen sac. I thought it was best to take the bishop (foolishly missing the actual trap). Oh well, there's always Tuesday.
Mar-10-08  012: Sunday puzzle <18. ...?> Mar-09-08 Kupreichik vs Chekhov, 1976
Mar-10-08  DeltaHawk: Finally, I figured a puzzle out. I calculated it and hoped I would get it right.
Dec-10-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: There's a nice little story told related to/around this game: http://www.schachbund.de/news/id-10... or here: http://www.zeit.de/2006/07/SpieleiS...
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