Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Siegbert Tarrasch vs Johannes Minckwitz
Hamburg (1885), Hamburg GER, rd 10, Jul-20
Scotch Game: Schmidt Variation (C45)  ·  0-1



Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 17 times; par: 24 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 2 more Tarrasch/J Minckwitz games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Help with kibitzing features can be found on our Kibtizing Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
Apr-11-09  Andrijadj: Tarrash was drunk...
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <Andrijadj> No, that has been Alyochin. :D
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: In such cases Tarrasch had always non-specific Health Problems.
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <11.Qd3!> was the only proper move here.

click for larger view

Apr-11-09  Andrijadj: Yes whiteshark,but Alekhine made a habit of it,so he could still play decent chess while drunk...Tarrash was badly affected and this was the outcome:)))
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: In the 3rd round at Hamburg 1885, Minckwitz played this same variation against W. Paulsen, W Paulsen vs J Minckwitz, 1885. Paulsen played the correct 11.Qd3, with the game ending in a draw.

In "Three Hundred Chess Games", Tarrasch tells of his preparations for his 10th round game with Minckwitz. During lunch, Zukertort recommended to Tarrasch the move 11.Qd2. Tarrasch said he then did no additional analysis, and when given the opportunity against Minckwitz, he played the move 11.Qd2.

Fritz confirms that Tarrasch should not have accepted advice without doing some analysis. The game was about even after: (.13) (21 ply) 11.Qd3 Bb7 12.0-0-0.

Or, if Minckwitz continued as he did against W. Paulsen, 11.Qd3 dxe5 12.fxe4 Qxe4+ 13.Qxe4 Nxe4, then (1.25) (22 ply) 14.0-0-0! as played by Paulsen, or (1.04) (22 ply) 14.Bc6, are very strong continuations for White.

It seems to me Tarrasch should have had lunch with W. Paulsen, not Zukertort!

After 11.Qd2, Fritz indicates that either 11...d4 or 11...Rb8, will give Black some advantage.

After 11.Qd2 d4 12.0-0-0 h6, White should not have played 13.h4?. Tarrasch made no note of this serious error, indicating only that 12...h6 wins the game.

Instead of 13.h4?, Tarrasch should have tried: (-.46) (21 ply) 13.Bxf6! gxf6 14.a3 Bxc3 15.bxc3 Be6 16.Bc6 Rb8 17.cxd4 cxd4 18.Qxd4 Qxa3+ 19.Kd2, (-.55) (20 ply) 19...Rg8, or (-.53) (20 ply) 19...Kg7, with some chances for a draw.

May-04-17  gars: How could Tarrasch lose so badly after only one mistake, namely <11.Qd2> ? I did not understando why his move is so bad.
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <gars: How could Tarrasch lose so badly after only one mistake, namely <11.Qd2> ? I did not understand why his move is so bad.> If you want to see why 11. Qd2 is so bad, all you have to is continue playing through the game (unless you think you've found a refutation for white). People lose because of one bad move all the time, that's all it takes.

It's not obvious to me why 11. Bxf6 isn't possible. If 11..cxd4 then 12. Bxe7+ Or if 11...gxf6 then 12. Qxd4 hitting the rook. or 11..Qxf6 12. Qxf6 gxf6 13. exd5 or castle (either side). That said I'm probably missing something because nobody mentioned that option in the computer or traditional analyses.

Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ChessHigherCat> 11. Bxf6 cxd4 12. Bxe7+ Kxe7 13. a3 cxb2 14. axb4 <Rb8> followed by ...Rxb4 and Black ends up with the very dangerous passed a- and b-pawns and is probably winning.
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <beatgiant> okay, thanks.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ChessHigherCat> Except the line I posted was full of misprints. Trying it again: 11. Bxf6 cxd4 12. Bxe7+ Kxe7 13. a3 dxc3 14. axb4 cxb2 15. Rb1 Rb8
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: beatgiant> I have no sympathy with sloppy notation. 100 lashes with a wet noodle! I saw that in all the lines with cxd white could kick the bishop with a3/b4 at the cost of cxb2, which I figured wasn't a big threat because of Rb1, as you say, and if Rb8 then Ba4-Bb3 and castles. That all seems quite elementary compared with the impossible task of making my neighbors understand that it's not cool to blab your head off under my window sill at night.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ChessHigherCat> <Ba4-Bb3 and castles> The problem, as you no doubt now see, is that Black has ...a5 and ...a4 driving off the Bishop.

11. Bxf6 cxd4 12. Bxe7+ Kxe7 13. a3 dxc3 14. axb4 cxb2 15. Rb1 Rb8 16. Ba4 Rxb4 17. Bb3 <a5> so 18. Rxb2 a4 wins the Bishop for a couple of pawns, which looks good enough for Black to win.

Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <beatgiant> Doesn't it get monotonous finding the winning variations all the time? You should try to find losing variations for a change.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ChessHigherCat> <try to find losing variations> You obviously haven't yet checked out my "beatgiant's bloopers" game collection - which is in need of an update with the more recent examples.
Sep-03-17  ughaibu: But Zukertort wasn't playing in this tournament, was living in the UK and has no continental games listed from this year, so the story of Tarrasch having lunch with him sounds thin.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <so the story of Tarrasch having lunch with him sounds thin.>

Not really. We know Zukertort went to Hamburg in 1885 for a simul/blindfold exhibition. I could imagine the two events might coincide.

Sep-07-17  ughaibu: But I don't know that, why are there no games from the event in the database?
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Game 67, Hamburg tournament, July 1885
from Tarrasch's Dreihundert Schachpartien by Honza Cervenka
21 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection VI by wwall
Game 61
from Three Hundred Chess Games (Tarrasch) by Qindarka
Beatgiant's Bloopers
by beatgiant
Scotch Game: Schmidt Var (C45) 0-1 Blunder
from 021Club by fredthebear
Game 61
from Tarrasch's 300 Chess Games by yesthatwasasac
Scotch Game: Schmidt Var (C45) 0-1 Blunder
from Not Duct Tape, Not Beer, Not Irish Either by fredthebear
21 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection VI by PinkLedDoor
Game 61
from Three Hundred Chess Games (Tarrasch) by Incremental
Hamburg 1885
by suenteus po 147

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us

Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC