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Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-24-08 | | Avarus: Didn't see it coming. I was considering the game play as the only shot but forgot the stalemate. |
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| Feb-24-08 | | ounos: dzechiel, after the exchange of rooks there is no stalemate! |
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| Feb-24-08 | | zooter: What happens after 40.Kh2? Does black win in this line? |
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| Feb-24-08 | | MarkThornton: <handro1104: What's wrong with 39. R-d7?> I suspect that 39...Rd7 loses to 40. Qe3, threatening 41. Qxh6# |
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| Feb-24-08 | | MarkThornton: <zooter: What happens after 40.Kh2? Does black win in this line?> Yes, Black wins. 40. Kh2?? <40...Qh1+> 41. Kg3 Rd3+ and now A) <42. f3> Rxf3+ 43. Kh4 Rxh3# B) <42. Kh4> Rxh3#
C) <43. Kf4> Qe4# |
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| Feb-24-08 | | MarkThornton: After <40. f3>, then <40...Rd2+> achieves a draw.
click for larger view<41. Kh1??> and <41. Kf1??> lose instantly to 41...Qxf3+. <41. Kg3?> also loses to <41...Qe5+> 42. f4 Qe1+ [42. Kh4 Qe1 43. Qf2 Qxf2#] 43. Kf3 Rd3+ 44. Kg2 Qg3+ 45. Kf1 Qf3+ {45. Kh1 Rd1#] 46. Kg1 Rd1+ [46. Ke1 Rd1#; 46. Qf2 Rd1#] 47. Kh2 Rh1# However, <41. Kg1!> seems to draw. Black has nothing better than 41...Rd1+ 42. Kg2, which repeats the position. |
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| Feb-24-08 | | whiteshark: Didn't get it. Well, hindsight is easier than foresight. :D |
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| Feb-24-08 | | whiteshark: Instead here is a study where underpromotion is winning and queening creates a stalemate:
click for larger view<1.e6 Rf6 2.e7 Rxf5> 
click for larger view <3.e8=R!!> If 3.e8=Q Rf1+ 4.Qe1 Rh1 5. Qxh1 stalemate 
click for larger view <3... Rf1+ 4.Re1 Rxe1 5.Kxe1> and white shall win the ♙endgame (1-0) |
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| Feb-24-08 | | johnlspouge: Sunday (Insane): Black to move and draw
Material: N for 3Ps. The White Kg2 is open, and the Black pieces are active. The Black Kh8 has no legal move, and White threatens both 40.Qg7# and 40.Rxh6, followed by 41.g5 and a general rout on the K-side. Black must therefore play actively against Kg2. Candidates (39...): Qd5+
39...Qd5+
40.Kh2 Qh1+ 41.Kg3 Rd3+ and mate soon, so the reply is forced. 40.Kg3 41.Kh4 Rxh3+ 42.Kxh3 Qh1+ 43.Kg3 Nh5+ 44.gxh5 Qf3+ White now can choose his draw, because the capture of Qf3 is stalemate. 45.Kh4 Qh3 46.Kxh3 stalemate
45.Kh2 Qh1+ 46.Kg3 Qf3+ repeats position
Time to peek. The final 46.Qg2+ was more elegant than my repetition, but this puzzle was the easiest Sunday in memory. Time to check the kibitzing. I missed the response 40.d3, but opening the K-side with a Q+R chasing a naked K looks all wrong. Some general principles seem to apply in Q+R vs. K chases (many of which I have foolishly calculated in POTDs): (1) the attacker should push the K away from help; and (2) the defending Q can generally stop mate only by sacrificing for the R. I will go through the posts of <patzer2> and <Helloween> in detail. I expect the White Ps can rescue a draw, but certainly no better. |
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Feb-24-08
 | | Jimfromprovidence: <markThornton> <I suspect that 39...Rd7 loses to 40. Qe3, threatening 41. Qxh6#> I would have gone down swinging and played 39...Rd7 as well. If 40 Qe3 then 40...Ng8. 
click for larger viewWhite has the edge, but it's a real dog fight now.
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| Feb-24-08 | | DarthStapler: Didn't even try, but the solution was amazing |
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| Feb-24-08 | | amuralid: <jimfromprovidence> What about Rh6+ before retreating the Queen? |
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Feb-24-08
| | Jimfromprovidence: <amuralid> <What about Rh6+ before retreating the Queen?> If after 39...Rd7 40 Rxh6+, then 40...Rh7 forcing the rook exchange, 41 Rxh7+ Nxh7. 
click for larger viewWhite is up 4 pawns vs. a knight, but with both queens on the board, I'm not sure if that's enough of an advantage for white to win for sure. |
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| Feb-24-08 | | TrueBlue: that was easy, saw this right away:
39. .. Qd5+ 40. Kg3 Rd3+ 41. Kh4 Rxh3+ 42. Kxh3 Qh1+ 43. Kg3
Nh5+ 44. gxh5 Qf3+ 45. Kh2 Qh1+ 46. Kxh1
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| Feb-24-08 | | johnlspouge: <<Jimfromprovidence> wrote: <<amuralid> <What about Rh6+ before retreating the Queen?>
If after 39...Rd7 40 Rxh6+, then 40...Rh7 forcing the rook exchange, 41 Rxh7+ Nxh7. [snip] White is up 4 pawns vs. a knight, but with both queens on the board, I'm not sure if that's enough of an advantage for white to win for sure.> The prevailing wisdom, which I checked out after Polgar's draw on Wed, is that 3 connected passed Ps win against a lone N, except if K+N have established a blockade. (<amuralid> has some excellent links to N+P endgames, although the 3Ps vs. N factoid is not among them.) White therefore advances his Ps while his Q keeps an eye on Pa4. He then exchanges Qs (if necessary, but probably not) when the Ps are far enough up the board to make the a-Ps irrelevant, and proceed to win the 3Ps vs. N endgame. (I will confirm the win with a machine when I return home, but I am fairly confident of my conclusion.) Being a skeptic, after a week of draws, I suspected CG might throw a curve with a win on Sunday. I knew that 3Ps vs N is a win for the 3Ps, so I checked that Black had no forced win, thereby convincing myself that Black <really, really> wants the draw. |
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Feb-24-08
| | Jimfromprovidence: To <johnlspouge> and others I played the continuation I offered three times after ; 39...Rd7 40 Rxh6+ Rh7 41 Rxh7+ Nxh7, using the Rybka 2.1c w 32 demo package. The first time white gained a clear advantage in 15 moves, the second time black forced a draw by repetition and the third time white took 30 moves to obtain a clear advantage. So it looks good for white if he doesn't mess it up.
BTW...(and I don't mean to be blasphemous) did anyone think that this game was a construction? I have to admit the thought crossed my mind. I say that because a seven-move forced stalemate sequence is not something you see every day. |
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| Feb-24-08 | | wals: Noting think = what side of the brain will triumph today?
Look at board White is one move away from # .
Qd5 +, Rg1+. or Qd7 stops the immediate #.
39. ...Qd7 40.Rxh6+ ...Kg7
PM =
Never would have got that. brain score 1/2-1/2 |
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| Feb-24-08 | | xrt999: <BTW...(and I don't mean to be blasphemous) did anyone think that this game was a construction? I have to admit the thought crossed my mind.> Thats weird Jim because it says the game was played at a tournament in 1992. So the 2 players like made up the game before they sat down and agreed to play the 46 moves they memorized before hand. |
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Feb-24-08
| | Jimfromprovidence: <xrt999> <Thats weird Jim because it says the game was played at a tournament in 1992. So the 2 players like made up the game before they sat down and agreed to play the 46 moves they memorized before hand.> Again, I'm not trying to be flippant or disrespectful; it’s just a gut feeling I have. My concern is not that the game was rigged but that if it occurred at all. I checked on the web and I couldn’t find any independent corroboration of this match. The few sites that mentioned this match and used references, linked to this game and this game only on the CG site. That's weird to me.
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| Feb-24-08 | | dzechiel: <ounos: dzechiel, after the exchange of rooks there is no stalemate!> D'oh! You are right, of course. I give up too easily on these "insane" positions. |
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| Feb-24-08 | | JG27Pyth: to <Jimfromprovidence> here's a link to a big 'Alicante' chess tournament that's been going on for a few years. http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...
Looking into some other databases I found other games from the same year as the puzzle for this tournament, they aren't in the CG database though. In the CG database Ray Keene wins a game (with black) in Alicante (in 77 if I remember correctly) against a fellow named Jaan Eslon. (The way some people enjoy solving chess puzzles, I enjoy seeing if I can track things down on the web.) |
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| Feb-24-08 | | schnarre: A Sneaky stalemate! |
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| Feb-25-08 | | kevin86: A brilliant seven move 3 piece-stalemate force! |
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| Apr-18-09 | | WhiteRook48: stalemate traps!! |
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| Feb-09-12 | | King Death: This was a clever swindle by Black. |
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