chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Albin Planinc vs Darko Gliksman
YUG-ch 23rd (1968), Cateske Toplice, rd 6, Feb-21
Pirc Defense: Byrne Variation (B07)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 535 more games of A Planinc
sac: 20.Qxc6 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-24-09  A Karpov Fan: no...;-(
Dec-24-09  WhiteRook48: I had 48 Nf5, but the wrong follow-up
Dec-24-09  tivrfoa: 49. Qg5+ is also a good puzzle.
Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For what it's worth, Fritz indicates if White choses to play the more complicated 51. Qxh7+ instead of the quick 51. Qg5+! (mate-in-three), he can still mate in eight moves:

51. Qxh7+ Kf6 52. Qf5+! Ke7 53. Qe5+ Kd7 (53...Kg7 54. Qg5+ Kh8 55. Qh6+ Kg8 56. Qh7#) 53... Kd8 54. Qd6+ Kc8 55. Ba6#) 54. Bb5+ Kc8 55. Qc5+! Kb8 56. Qd6+ Kb7 57. Ba6+! Ka8 58.Qxf8#.

Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <remolino> Fully agree - a win is a win, after all.

What is it that pilots say? - any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. I think the same goes for chess. Winning ugly is still winning.

Here in the UK, we have a football (soccer, if you must) team called Arsenal who used to specialise in winning every game by the grand total of 1-0. They would get a goal at some point in the game and then defend like Kramnik's Berlin Wall until time was up. Boring to watch and very frustrating to play against, but extremely effective.

And ... before any Gooners complain ... yes, they have changed their tactics and do play attractive football now.

I don't fully subscribe to the theory that "when you find a good move, look for a better one". So, yes, take the full point for 48. Bc4, and happy Christmas!

Dec-24-09  Nullifidian: 48.?

White to play. White is up two minor pieces for a rook.

I started looking for forcing lines and came up with:

48. ♘f5!

There is a double threat of ♘h6# or ♕g7# on the next move unless Black does something about it.

48. ... ♙gxf5 is practically forced, but now Black has opened up his king's file. 49. ♕g5+ ♔h8▢ 50. ♕xf5 brings the queen onto the same diagonal with the bishop. Black's 50. ... ♔g7 is almost the only move (besides throwing away his queen) to stave off mate as long as possible. 51. ♕g5+ ♔h8▢ 52. ♕h6. Now Black can only put up a token resistance by throwing away the queen. Let's say 52. ... ♕h1+ 53. ♔xh1 and now any move leads to 54. ♕xh7#.

Dec-24-09  SufferingBruin: 1000 rating, trying to get better.

I got the first move and was all set to type in "I got it" and leave it at that. I always envied those players/posters who type in those three words: I got it. Sometimes, they won't even type that much. Sometimes, they'll just say, "got it." So that was my goal after finding the first move.

And then I went pawn-grabbing... (sigh)

Dec-24-09  TheaN: Thurday 24 December 2009

<48.?>

Material: White up, ♗+♘ / ♖

Candidates: Qxf7, Nf5, Nxf7... works, but I think the simple <[Bc4]> is easier.

-ML-
Weird position. White is clearly better here, but Black has all kinds of perpetual threat. In fact, this let me to think White's combo has to be reasonably forced. However, it seems like it doesn't. The first real line I was looking at was 48.Nxf7 Rxf7 (48....Qc1 49.Nh6! Qxh6 50.Bc4 Rf7 51.Qxf7 Kh8 52.Qg8 1-0) 49.Bc4 Qxc2 50.Kh3 Qf5!? 51.Qxf5 gxf5 52.Kh4! Kg7 53.Bxf7 Kxf7 54.Kg5 Ke6... for as far as I can see this is winning for White. However, more direct seems to be:

<48.Bc4> and now, the threat of Bxf7 seems unbearable for Black. After:

<48....Qxc2 49.Kh3> 49....Qf5 is impossible because the Knight is still guarding it. So, the only defense for Black is moving the h-pawn:

<49....h5 50.Bxf7 Kh7 (50....Rxf7 51.Qxf7 Kh8 52.Ne8! Qc3 53.Qf8 Kh7 54.Nf6 Qxf6 55.Qxf6 ) 51.Bxg6 Qxg6 52.Qxf8 Qg4 53.Kg2 Qe4 54.Qf3 > this should be winning easily for White. Time to check.

Dec-24-09  TheaN: 2,5/4

Give myself 3/4 for this as these are right ideas. However, 48.Nf5 is both obvious and to the point. Take that 53....Qe4 in my line was a case of bad board vision, the Knight is still on d6 so Nxe4 is still possible, and after 53....Qe2 54.Qf2 still wins easily.

However, going for my first line give an even easier endgame: after 48.Nxf7 Rxf7 (48....Qc1 49.Nh6! Qxh6 50.Bc4 Rf7 51.Qxf7 Kh8 52.Qg8 1-0) 49.Bc4 Qxc2 50.Kh3 Qf5 (what else) 51.Qxf5 gxf5 52.Kh4! Kg7 53.Bxf7 Kxf7 54.Kg5 Ke6, as pointed out by myself and others, wins easily after 55.Kh6:


click for larger view

Still, the mate is a basic mating combo and should not be overlooked.

Dec-24-09  gofer: This took a while for me to make it work, but after a bit of persistence...

48 Nf5! gxf5 (forced)

49 Qxf5 Re8 (forced - anywhere else loses the rook or results in Qxh7#)

50 Qxh7+ Kf8 (forced)

51 Bc4!

The point being that Qh7 is protecting Pc2, Bc4 is protecting Re2+ and Q+B are threatening 52 Qxf7#, but the only way to protect Pf7 is Re7 and that allows 52 Qh8#. So black can only run!

51 ... Ke7
52 Qxf7+ Kd8 (Kd6 loses the rook)
53 Qd5+

At which point black might as well resign. The best black can hope for is to lose the rook and then move into a lost endgame. The more likely scenario is a forced mate in about 6 moves...

Time to check...

Incidentally, I don't even think that white has to force the situation with 48 Nf5. White is in complete control and could instead play moves like Qc3, Ne4 and Nf6+ which cause white real problems (i.e. a knight windmill).

Dec-24-09  YouRang: Got it. :-)
The Q+B are amply situated to deliver mate if only we can displace black's g-pawn.

That's were the knight come in: <48.Nf5!> is a naked mating threat that must answered by <48...gxf5>, giving the Q+B all the room they need:

<49.Qg5+! Kh8> (don't give black time to make an escape square for the king at f8) <50.Qxf5> another naked mate threat <50...Kg7> trying to come up for air <51.Qg5+ Kh8> pushing the king back under <52.Qh6> with mate next.

Dec-24-09  TheaN: Oh wait, it doesn't!


click for larger view

55....f4! 56.gxf4 (56.Kxh7 f3 ) Kf5 57.Kxh7 Kxf4 58.Kg6, threatening h4, 58....Kg4 59.Kf6 Kh3 60.Ke6 Kxh3... seems more than enough, but: 61.Kd6 Kg3 62.Kc6 Kf4 63.Kb7 Ke4 64.Kxa7 Kd4 65.Ka6 Kc3=. Instead... one move earlier, 55.h4! wins:


click for larger view

Endgames... *sigh*

Dec-24-09  YouRang: Checking with the computer, it seems that white had a bunch of ways to win, but 48.Nf5 was quickest.

Interestingly, a couple of the 'next best' moves were 48.Kh3 and 48.h4. It turns out at 48.Bc4 also wins, but I was too lazy to consider the consequences of letting the black queen give check with 48...Qxc2+.

(I actually did consider 48.h4, but didn't see the right continuation after 48...Qd1).

Dec-24-09  remolino: <Once> Happy Christmas to you also and to all kiblitzers, from Mexico
Dec-24-09  gofer: I missed the main line, but in the alternative line as annotated, I don't think that 51 ... Re6 is playable as it moves into a lost endgame, but it might still be the best on offer!!!

51 Bc4 Re6
52 Bxe6 fxe6
53 Qxa7

Obviously 53 ... Qxc2+ is not playable as 54 Qf2+ swaps off queens into a won endgame for white! So this position must be won for white. Black is down two sets of connected passed-pawns versus just a single passed-pawn. I will see what Fritz thinks...

Dec-24-09  BOSTER: <remolino> <48.Nf5 is more beautiful, but it is not all about looks, is it?> This is not about <looks>, this is about chess understanding. <Once> <Fully agree-a win is a win>. Completely disagree.
This is what separates professional players from amateur.
Dec-24-09  YouRang: <BOSTER: <remolino> <48.Nf5 is more beautiful, but it is not all about looks, is it?> This is not about <looks>, this is about chess understanding. <Once> <Fully agree-a win is a win>. Completely disagree. This is what separates professional players from amateur.>

I think one could find several examples of where a professional player neglected the 'most elegant' win because they found a 'clear win' and went with it. Nothing wrong with that.

In fact it's sort of silly IMO to fret over finding a 'more elegant' win once you see a clear way to win.

Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: <TheaN> 48.Nxf7 Rxf7 49.Bc4 Qxc2+ 50.Kh3 Qxc4 0-1 < CHESSTTCAMPS >
Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <BOSTER> This is the season of goodwill, so let's see if we can find a way for us all to agree.

In a real game, winning matters. So if you spot a sure-fire way to win, the best thing is to take it. Many games have been lost because one player tried to be a little too clever. Simplify, simplify.

48. Bc4 wins without too much fuss or drama. And in an OTB situation, that would be all she wrote.

But you are quite right that we won't improve if we don't keep on pushing ourselves. 48. Nf5 is the cleaner win, and we ought to train ourselves to spot it - without being too harsh or unkind on anyone who find the more prosaic way to bring home the point.

So what is the difference between a professional and an amateur? I think it is this - in a real game, most professionals will do what it takes to win, but in a practice situation they will do what it takes to find the clearest finish.

In other words, we are all right today. And isn't that the spirit of Christmas?

Happy Christmas everyone. Whatever religious belief (or lack of) works for you, I hope you have a peaceful and happy time.

Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: I looked at my line last night of 48 Kh3 Qc1 49 Bc4 again and saw that it is too complicated compared to 48 Bc4 directly, which wins a piece right away.

This is because after 48 Kh3 Qc1 49 Bc4 Qh6+ 50 Kg2 black has 50...Qg7!?


click for larger view

Now white can't play 51 Qxg7, because he won't win any more material. He has to play a finesse move like 51 Qe7 first.

Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: This was just as easy for a Thursday as yesterday's was for a Wednesday.
Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <I think all that found 48.Bc4 did solve this one. Leads to an elementary win. >

I don't agree. White has such a strong position, it's no great shakes to find a move that doesn't make things any worse. Might as well say 49. Qxf5 is correct since it leads to a win.

Dec-24-09  kattman2040: i agree with ohio. After Nf5 white has a mate in 6 moves no matter what black does. Bc4 does win the game but it also gives white a chance to screw up later. How many of us have lost games we thought were a sure victory. Nf5 is the correct answer.
Dec-24-09  TheaN: <Stonehenge: <TheaN> 48.Nxf7 Rxf7 49.Bc4 Qxc2+ 50.Kh3 Qxc4 0-1 < CHESSTTCAMPS >>

Ouch!! Either Bc4 or of course Nf5! it is! That move is way too easy how could I miss it... :)

Dec-24-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: 47...Qb1 was a terrible move. Almost the first thing I noticed in the puzzle position was the awkward position of the black ♕. Could it be on a worse square? My first try was Nc4-e5-g4-h6#, but that takes a little too long.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Two ways to mate w/the Queen
from Trompy, Byrne Bg5 Stuff Fredthebear by fredthebear
wk42's favorite games
by wk42
Tactics - 1
by obrit
48...Nf5!
from Mating Attack by patzer2
B07 1-0 52
from Game collection: 7Up by fredthebear
Two ways to mate w/the Queen
from Tromp, Torre Attack, Byrne Bg5 Stuff Fredthebear by Jersey Joe
48.? (Thursday, December 24)
from Puzzle of the Day 2009 by Phony Benoni
48...Nf5!
from Mating Attack by Jaredfchess
48...Nf5!
from Mating Attack by trh6upsz
48.? (Thursday, December 24)
from POTD Pirc , Modern ,Robatsch by takchess
Planinc vs. the Pirc
from Craigokat's favorite games by Craigokat
Flo's favorite games
by Flo
Game collection: M
by zentovic
18. R1xe6!! is a quick win Planinc missed
from Combined Operations by patzer2
48.? (December 24, 2009)
from Thursday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
18. R1xe6!! is a quick win Planinc missed
from Combined Operations by trh6upsz


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC