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Vladimir Kramnik vs Peter Leko
Kramnik - Leko Classical World Championship Match (2004), Brissago SUI, rd 4, Sep-30
Spanish Game: Closed Variations (C84)  ·  1/2-1/2

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 29 OF 29 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-30-04  BoardSilly: <lucifershammer>Yeah, alright, Shirov might have posed her difficulties too. She does need 24/7 care, you know, which can cause problems when competing in a major chess tournament. Lay off her a bit, could you.
Sep-30-04  HolyKnight: Leko is 3 years younger than Kramnik. I thought world champions are at their best from age 26 to 34 lets say. After 35 they go down hill.

If Leko does not win it this time, I would think he be favored next time around. (with proper coaching)

Sep-30-04  tanginamo: WOW! at the post game press conference, leko said he's guaranteeing a win with the white pieces in game 5! kramnik gave him a very disturbing look.
Sep-30-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: < HolyKnight: I would think, 34.R5xb3 Rxa4 35.Rd1 Would of been better for white. ...> Yes, Kramnik probably captured with the wrong rook. The whole maneuver aferwards Rb5-b6-f6-f3-e2 looks contrived. In fact, Leko shows it contrived quite convincingly. Perhaps Kramnik was trying to confuse Leko right before the time control?
Sep-30-04  acirce: I was looking at that, but 35..Ra2 controlling the 2nd rank seems to force White into the same passivity; ideas of ..Rd6-e6-e2 may materialize too, I find that no better for White. It seems the rook endgame was in reality just that "simple draw" from the beginning.
Sep-30-04  Shah Mat: ahh too bad this game turned out to be a draw. at 41 it def. looked drawish, but i was hoping VK could pull out the victory. a fine game regardless.
Sep-30-04  HolyKnight: If Leko puts his rook on rank 2 attacking f2 pawn. Kramnik can do couple things. He can play f3 where g2 pawn is the anchor. He can get his second rook beind the pawn than maybe, cutting off 2nd rank.

But it mainly comes down to Leko is going to attack pawn with 2 rooks. But the King and one rook can hold that down, where Kramnik has a free rook to create mischief. It may not win in the long run.

The move Kramnik made I thought was a big over sight at world class level. I mean he got his rooks all tied up.

Sep-30-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: White could apply more torture: <34.R5xb3 Rxa4 35.Rd1 Ra2 36.d4>. It may not be a win, but it may not be a draw; eg, <36...Rf6> with the idea to at least weaken White K-side pawns <37.f3 Re6 38.Rbd3 Kg7 39.R1d2 ...> Two classic games of this genre are Lasker vs Rubinstein, 1914 (a win) and Botvinnik vs Euwe, 1946 (a draw). The key issue is to what extent White can prepare the pawn endgame before the d-pawn advances to its doom and rooks disapear from the board.
Sep-30-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: Sorry <HolyKnight>. I did not intend to duplicate your comments, they are well taken.
Sep-30-04  HolyKnight: No problem thanks for the game information.
Sep-30-04  Giancarlo: <Giancarlo - Kramnik win seems unlikely>

Dont rearange what I said from 1 quote. I meant in the next game, not the match. I believe he will win the match. I belive unlikely he wins saturday, I think it will be drawed. Please dan't use quotes from my posts and not look at my enitre post.

Thank you.

Sep-30-04  pawntificator: At least they tried.
Sep-30-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <pawntificator: At least they tried.> Oh, fighting draws are fun. And this definitely was a fighting game.
Oct-01-04  Bigbluedog: At least they tried? Yes they tried to play too cautiously. What else can one expect though when you have too much respect for your opponent. I think we need to see one of them treat the other with contempt. Then a game would ensue that would likely be historic. Also possibly embarrasing too! Chess is a fighting game. I want to see some real fighting not tip toeing! thedoggieman Bigbluedog
Oct-01-04  tanginamo: WOW! at the post game press conference, Leko said he's guaranteeing a win with the white pieces in game 5! Kramnik gave him a very disturbing look.
Oct-01-04  iron maiden: I wouldn't bet against a decisive result in game 5. I think Leko will be playing all-out for the win.
Oct-01-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  lostemperor: I'm happy my bets on page 3, for a long draw, has paid off! Thanks Leko and Kramnik.
Oct-01-04  acirce: A poster on the fide.com forums just offered a new interesting perspective on the draw discussion: <Offering draws is stupid. Only spoiled children of rich parents offer draws.>
Oct-01-04  Karpova: It seems to me as if kramnik had problems getting into positions that offer him chances to win. just esteem the two longest games of the match, game 1 and 4. kramnik got an advantage just because leko played too aggressively for a win. it's the same with kasparov, anand etc. kasparov with white presses for a win and a long game with kramnik defending (successfully) emerges. kramnik playing kasparov with white -> short draw . same with anand!
Oct-01-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: Yes <Karpova>, Kramnik seems to be a prototypical counter-puncher. And when he is in the control of the "higher ground" (= can draw to victory), then he can (and does) use the following stratagem to create better positions for himself: He plays very safe, sound moves (eg, <19.Bd5> of this game) which put his oponent in front of a difficult conundrum: Either to drive soundly towards a draw (here <19...Bxd5>) or to take serious risks to play on (as <19...Bc8?!> in the game). In the former case, Kramnik's higher ground gets just a littlebit higher each game, as he approaches match victory. In the later case, he enters game complications from a more solid position. As long as Karamnik is in an actual (or at least de-facto) lead, this stratagem works superbly for him. Only if he got behind he would have to show us whether he can generate oportunity directly by himself.

Kramnik is a counter-puncher by temperament and choice. He has so much tallent that, I am sure, he can generate an oportunity in an odd game if he must. But he would probably suddenly feel not quite comfortable if he had to start pushing the issues.

Oct-03-04  Giancarlo: Next game, will Leko open up with 1.d4 again? Could be. I think he will based on the resutls so far pf 1.e4.

By the way, both wins have come on both Saturdays, and I got to see them :-)

Oct-08-04  shwn67: i'm new and fairly inexperienced, but especially on this game, i saw many times where i felt kramnik could've taken control. like after 35. ...Rd7, why he didn't make 36. Rb8, possibly drawing Leko to 36. ...Rd8 37. Rxd8+. If i'm missing something there, please enlighten me. I felt that the move he made was weaker and drew the game on alot longer than it probably should have.
Oct-08-04  acirce: <shwn67> 36.Rb8+ Kg7 and the rook doesn't seem to have anything more to do on the 8th rank, while the check merely drives the black king closer to the center where it will want to go anyway. It's possible that you are right and that there were improvements for Kramnik, see <Gypsy>'s posts for example, but I don't know.
Feb-27-09  WhiteRook48: look at the board after 38. Rf3
Jul-15-09  WhiteRook48: rook endings are so boring
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