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Vladimir Kramnik vs Peter Leko
Kramnik - Leko Classical World Championship Match (2004), Brissago SUI, rd 10, Oct-10
Spanish Game: Morphy Defense. Neo-Archangelsk Variation (C78)  ·  1/2-1/2



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 39 OF 39 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-10-04  suenteus po 147: <clendenon: Good post <suenteus>. However those that have me on ignore will not know why you are making these statements. Which is my point.> I understand your point, but the situation does breed two alternatives: They will either break their ignore aura and read your post, or, in the interest of simplicity, simply put me on ignore. Either way, putting the choice in the kibitzers' hands also gives them the responsibility of how they make those choices, and they have to live with that responsibility, confusion and all.
Oct-10-04  Strategic Joker: How can i put someone in ignore ?!?
Oct-10-04  suenteus po 147: <Strategic Joker> Click on the user's name, and at the bottom of his user profile page is a little gray box that says: If you don't want to read suenteus po 147's messages, use this link: >> IGNORE all kibitzing by suenteus po 147
Oct-10-04  mynameisrandy: PinkPanther, many of your posts come off as uncivil. I'm sure you don't intend that - you're just outspoken by nature, I'm sure - but quite a few have taken offense. Maybe you should read your posts over with that thought in mind before you post them. I'm not asking you change any opinions of course, just asking that you consider if the manner in which you present them will come off as rude or mean.
Oct-10-04  dragon40: Well as I said, I have used the Ignore feature once in a while, but it is important to remember this site IS for all people to express opinions, variations and differing points of view and trying to do it was adults! I have definitely taken issues with a couple of certain frequent posters on this site and chose to place them on ignore only for the simple fact I do not like the "holier than thou" attitude that the 1 person was displaying. We dont all have the luxury of being able to sit on out butts all day analyzing games and criticizing others for a comment just because we dont agree with it! After a while I stop ignoring them and see if they have changed...its just a matter of how much you can take as far as diversity and opinions go. I thnk most of us add color with the different views , opinions and personalities here..and we should all be tolerant regardless! That failing, yes, ignore works well :) Also, everyone expreses themselves differently; more passion and choice of words as well...does not make them wrong, its just differnt and yes maybe rude, but it makes a point in most cases. That being said, I still can't stand Kramnik and am rooting for him to lose, but todays game confused me..was Leko's defense that good or was Kramnik ever in a position to actually transfrom his position into a WINNING one? If he missed a win and fionds it later, it will surely work on him, no?>! He is watching this match come down to the wire, could be 1 more LEko win and it is over, which I think would be wonderful, not I do not think even a player such as Kramnik would not go down fighting as hard as he can..maybe he has been tired or ill or just under too much stress; time will tell over these next 4 games!! Thanks for the opportunity to express myself :)
Oct-10-04  tsj2000: hi guys i am new to this site.I really enjoy joining u all, becoz u all have unique personalities but working on one goal
Oct-10-04  tsj2000: I think we need a new system of points if we need to avoid such premature draws which defeats the purpose of playing chess itself 2 points for a win
0.5 for a draw and
0.25 for a loss
That way u can make the GM chess more adventurous!!
Oct-10-04  tsj2000: Further we should have 10 Major tournaments(Just like Grandslams in tennis)and players should carry over the grandprix points and the top eight at the end of the yr can play the world title series with a double leg round robin! If u want more fun, may be the top 2 of that tournament can play a world championship.However it should not be more than 10 games to make it interesting!! That way u will have the big guns playing all the time and not avoiding tournaments just for the fear of losing. Whoever loses chess should win!!
Oct-10-04  OneArmedScissor: Or <PinkPanther> why don't you go back to the school of common sense and figure out to read "computer slag"

em = them

Just face it PinkPanther... you got owned.

Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <drchess9999> Good point, however they said before how there's some glitch when the database was created from the start, thus there's no quick fix for these match games not being in order.

<tsj2000> Hello! Welcome to the group! Looks like you have some great ideas about chess, and hope to see you around again.

Oct-11-04  Cerebrate2006: omg leave pinkpanther alone. Just because he thinks that GMs are drawing too much does not mean he is an idiot. And also, he did not attack any of you till you started to attack him. So dont be hypocrites. Just let the guy share his opinions and you can share yours. If you want to question someone's opinion, ask nicely but do not write a long paragraph saying how much he sucks because he thinks draws are not fun to watch.

Also, when the top players in the game prove that the game we love so much is a draw with best play and no risks, the game will die.

Just to let everyone know, im against draws under 20 moves, but after 20 moves, you have given enough time to actually get out of theory in some lines. Rules need to be changed to stop drawing under 20 moves.

Oct-11-04  azaris: <If you want to question someone's opinion, ask nicely but do not write a long paragraph saying how much he sucks because he thinks draws are not fun to watch.>

I don't get it. Where do these people spawn who believe that it's fine for certain people to repeatedly fill these forums with tiresome tirades, while it's not OK for other people to refute their garbage?

I don't even mind PP's coarse comments as much as the peanut gallery who seems to think it's not allowed to point out when someone here is full of it. Just like the bunch of guys who decided it was acceptable to launch an ad-hominem attack against Ray but any criticism of themselves was out of line.

Oct-11-04  ughaibu: If anyone seriously thinks either basketball or chess players aren't paid to entertain they must be nuts. What as an alternative is it suggested they are paid for? If it's for results then nobody need watch a basketball game or replay a chess game, (this site would have no visitors if chess wasn't entertaining) they could just read the results in their morning paper.
Oct-11-04  ruylopez900: <tsj> Two things, if you want a truly good and worthwhile WC cycle, the interzonal tournaments and candidate matches worked well enough. As for the matches, short matches don't help the drawing problem. Because its a short match no one wants to lose and no risks are taken.
Oct-11-04  offramp: No one can afford those long cycles any more. We seem to be back in the 1920s when whoever could get the sponsorship played the match.
Oct-11-04  clendenon: Hello everyone. Great debates. Hi, <azaris> I would like to announce my new book: "Play and win with the Ad-Hominem Attack". Great opening. Get it from Naive Publications. $10.95.
Oct-11-04  RonB52734: To recap:

On board 1 we have "Draws Suck" pitted against Draws Don't Suck", while on board 2 we have "Do Too" versus "Do Not."

Both boards look drawish. But since neither the "repetition x3" rule nor the "50 moves" rule applies, the players could continue slogging it out for quite some time.

Stay tuned.

Premium Chessgames Member
  ray keene: 23h4 may be the critical error-how about the immediate 23 d5 to keep the black rook away from the q side and the c5 square-thus maintaining whites pressure in the c file-i havent checked out post game interviews etc yet-has anyone there mentioned this.
Oct-11-04  ruylopez900: <offramp> What do you mean? Of course the moneys there, it's just not getting channeled properly. Interzonal tourneys are like Linares of Wijk aan Zee, loaded with talent. I'm sure you could find sponsorship money for those kind of tourneys! Plus the candidate matches are usually funded by FIDE and the site who hosts,the money is there since they've been wasting it on the FIDE KO tourneys. Same idea just longer matches and fewer rounds. All you've got left now is the World Championship Match, and once everything is reunified its not like we;ll have to beg for money.
Oct-11-04  PinkPanther: <ughaibu>
Oh my god??!! Did ughaibu actually agree with me on something?
Oct-12-04  aardvaark: What happens if 31 N x h6?
Oct-13-04  Orbitkind: <asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf<asdf>>>>>>>>>>
Nov-10-05  trolls: OK, now here's the Kramnik who beat
Kaspy! Marvelous objectivity by
Kramni thruout. Even Be4 over retreating with Ne3 - I guess he felt there was nothing left but a draw. Kramnik at his best is sort of like Capa without the snobbery
and stubborn-ness that so hampered
the treat Cuban in his match with
Alekhine, where you see Capa just
stubbornly playing the same lines
over and over, not willing to be
flexible. Remember when Capa dropped
the exchange against Euwe in a game, drew anyway, and then stubbornly played the exact way again later? You
can bet Alekhine made a mental note
of this!
Dec-13-07  acirce: <When Volodya went to the game, in a completely terrible condition, we would've considered a draw to be a fantastic result. I thought that if he was able to continue the match, that would already be a great thing. It seemed to me that it was better to resign the match and save his life; a beautiful death at the chess board in a World Championship match didn't look very attractive or romantic for some reason. But after this game we were thrilled like children - it turns out that this match is continuing! To us this simply seemed like a miracle.> (Evgeny Bareev, Bareev/Levitov: "From London To Elista")
Premium Chessgames Member
  plang: 9 a4 was a new move; 9 d4 is the most popular choice. Did Leko underestimate White's chances in the endgame; 13..Na5 might have been a safer choice. After 16..h6? White's edge became dangerous for Black; better would have been 16..Rd8 though after 17 Nd2..Rxd4 18 Rac1..Rd7 19 Nc4 White would have had good compensation for the pawn with Black's king still stuck in the center. Kramnik thought that 21 a5! would have been better giving him excellent winning chances after 21..Kd8 22 Ba4..Rxd4 23 Nb3..Re4 24 Red1+..Kc8 25 Rd7..Bd8 26 Nc5..Re2 27 b3.
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