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| Aug-21-05 | | Queens Gambit: I still think as many people does, that this was a won game for Leko, a sad thing that he was so coward to look for a win, he would be WC now. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | Hesam7: Kramnik about on this game:
<Q. What about game 12, Leko didn't "guess right"? When he offered a draw in a position where he was up two pawns and all the chances to win.K. Well I wouldn't be so categorical in claiming that he let his winning chances slip away. He had two extra pawns, but firstly one of them was doubled, and secondly the second one could not yet go forward. And then don't forget that Leko was entrenched in defense for the whole game, and psychologically it was difficult for him to shift gears and play for a win. He lost so many nerves during this game, that when the situation on the board began to swing his way, he could not find the power within him to play for a win. Q. This is the most difficult thing, in the game.
K. In reality, it's doubtful that any human can do it.> There is another point, what was the clock situation when Leko offered draw?? |
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| Aug-21-05 | | percyblakeney: <what was the clock situation> Leko had more time left than Kramnik, I think it was approximately 10 minutes against 5. I do think Leko should have played on here, at least there was no risk that he would lose the game. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | acirce: Ray Keene thought Kramnik was the one who should have played on. Hard to say, but saying that Black would have taken "no risk" playing on with that king's position of his sounds a bit absurd. In any case, in another interview Kramnik says that someone with more experience than Leko, like himself or Kasparov, probably would have been able to change focus and start playing for a win in that position. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | percyblakeney: Just sitting down to play is of course a risk, but if this position would be played out ten times by two equal GM's I personally doubt that white would win any of them (especially with half the time of black), even if he was Kramnik. Leko obviously did find it too risky not to play very defensively in the end of the match, and it didn't turn out well in the end. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | ughaibu: "Just sitting down to play is of course a risk", it's a joke, right? Losing a game of chess is less serious than breaking a finger nail. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | WMD: "The passion for playing chess is one of the most unaccountable in the world. It slaps the theory of natural selection in the face. It is the most absorbing of occupations. The least satisfying of desires. A nameless excrescence upon life. It annihilates a man. You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess." H.G. Wells, Certain Personal Matters, 1898
http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess/q... |
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| Aug-21-05 | | percyblakeney: <ughaibu> I meant that sitting down to play always means the risk that you might lose the game, unimportant as it may be... |
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| Aug-21-05 | | ughaibu: Okay. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | WMD: Okay, I take back what HG Wells said. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | Hesam7: <percyblakeney: <what was the clock situation> Leko had more time left than Kramnik, I think it was approximately 10 minutes against 5. I do think Leko should have played on here, at least there was no risk that he would lose the game.> Thank you for the info on the clock. I disagree that Leko had no chance of losing. The Black King is definitely not that protected and he can not immediately use his material advantage. <acirce: Ray Keene thought Kramnik was the one who should have played on.> I do not know what to say! I certainly see a logic in GM Keene's argument. <percyblakeney> your analogy with two equal GMs playing the position does not work because the way two players reach a position has quite an effect on their future play. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | percyblakeney: OK, let's skip the analogy, Leko wouldn't have lost this game if he had played on :-) In any case I would like to see a winning plan for Kramnik if he really is better in the final position... |
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| Aug-21-05 | | acirce: Nobody is saying that White is better, but it is fairly obvious that there was risk involved playing on for Black. The reasons are given: insecure king position, White's advanced d-pawn, the prospect of opening up lines with the help of moves like a4 or b3, of course the impending time trouble, and above all not having Fritz assisting him. Now, I don't think he would have lost, nor do I think he would have won. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | ughaibu: Risk?? risk, risk, risk??? risk, risk, risk, risk, risk, risk, risk (semantic saturation is one of my favourite psycholinguistic phenomena). |
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| Aug-21-05 | | percyblakeney: <Nobody is saying that White is better> It was referred that Kramnik was the one that should have played on in the final position, but in any case it's of course Leko's choice to offer draw if he wants to, while it's up to the spectators to argue about if it was wise or not... |
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| Aug-21-05 | | euripides: I don't blame either player for agreeing a draw, but it' an example where the Sofia rules might have caused some very interesting chess to be played. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | Queens Gambit: It would be very interesting to hear Kasparov opinion about this game. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | Queens Gambit: Maybe was risky for Leko to keep playing it, his king and that passesd pawn,even tough he has extra time and two more pawns, but the point for me its that Leko has a big deffect, he likes to play very secure and accepts or offers a draw very easy, if Leko changes that habit and puts more effort to fight the games he sure will improve a lot of more, he can be number one, but still too conservative and likes too much draws. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | Queens Gambit: You are right, Leko seems to be every time more drawish and non risky style of play. Those 12 draws in Linares were a shame. |
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| Aug-21-05 | | csmath: He won't improve, he is getting worse in that regard. To see the evidence check this year's Linares. In the games with Vallejo and Kasim he was drilling dead-end draws in hope that the opponent would make some patzer mistake, and this went on for hours. This is the kind of chess he wants to win. Whenever the position gets sharp and he has some risks to bear he will offer a draw. That is Leko. |
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| Oct-24-05 | | Dionyseus: In the post-conference Kramnik said that he would have played 35.Nf5. Leko said he felt the position was very dangerous and nightmarish, and he knew Kramnik would not reject the draw offer, so he was very pleased the game ended. |
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| Nov-10-05 | | trolls: Hmmm... Some moves a bit hard to
understand here. Kramnik has come
on strong in 10 and this one. Leko's
position looked rather shaky around move 28. Certainly 30 Qf6 would be a
move any newbie (or computer) would
look at. Kramnik wanted things to
ripen more, but it didn't come about.
Almost a bullet dodged for Leko, I
would say. |
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| Nov-04-15 | | kamagong24: it does look like Leko can play for a win here considering he is also ahead of time, nerves i guess... |
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| Sep-20-17 | | Petrosianic: <Q. What about game 12, Leko didn't "guess right"? When he offered a draw in a position where he was up two pawns and all the chances to win. K. Well I wouldn't be so categorical in claiming that he let his winning chances slip away. He had two extra pawns, but firstly one of them was doubled, and secondly the second one could not yet go forward.> This is the kind of nonsense answer that GM's give on occasion (Kramnik himself has given several of them. Notice the interviewer's point, that Leko gave up his winning chances without a fight. And it's true. Black has the advantage, and is the only one who can reasonably play for a win in this position. White can't. Kramnik didn't dispute that in any way, instead he answered a completely different question that the interviewer hadn't asked. Namely whether or not the position was dead won for Black (No, it isn't). So basically, Kramnik conceded the point the interviewer was asking about, while making it appear that he was disputing it. <And then don't forget that Leko was entrenched in defense for the whole game, and psychologically it was difficult for him to shift gears and play for a win. He lost so many nerves during this game, that when the situation on the board began to swing his way, he could not find the power within him to play for a win.> This part is most likely the real truth: That Leko threw away his winning chances, exactly as the interviewer said, for psychological reasons. |
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Apr-11-23
 | | plang: 18 Qh7 was a new move; 18 Qe2, 18 c4 and 18 Bc1 had been played previously. Leko spent half an hour on 18..Rg8 although after the game he concluded that 18..Rh8 19 Qxc7..Rdg8 20 Qxf7..Rf8 21 Qg7..Rfg8 22 Bxh6..Rxg7 23 Bxg7..Rg8 24 h6..Nf8 25 Bxf8..Bxf8 26 h7..Rh8 27 Ng5..Bg7 would have been OK for Black. In the above line Kramnik pointed out that 21 Qxe6..Rxf3 22 Bf4..Bxf4 23 Qe2..Rxf2 24 Qxf2..Bxg3 was also an interesting possibility. After 24..gxf Leko's pawns were weakened but he had increased his piece activity; ie. if 25 Nh4..Rg5 preventing Nf5. 30..f4! was well timed giving Black good counterplay - the response 31 Nd4 would have quickly led to trouble for Black after 31..fxg 32 fxg..Bxg3 33 Nc6+..Kh8 34 Re7..Qf5+ 35 Qc2..Qf1+ 36 Qc1..Qd3+ 37 Ka1..Bf2 winning. 33 Qc5 would have been better with a perpetual after 33..Qxf3 34 Qxb5+..Bb6 35 Re8+..Rxe8 36 Qxe8+..Kc7 37 Qc6+..Kd8 38 Qa8+ etc. Both players had ~3 minutes left to make 6 moves which is a partial explanation for Leko's controversial draw offer. |
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