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Alexander Graf vs Ruben Felgaer
Calvia Olympiad (2004), Calvia ESP, rd 8, Oct-23
Benko Gambit: Accepted. Modern Variation (A57)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-12-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: 23 ... Qxe5 24. Ng6+ & 25. Qxe5. Brilliant game.
Feb-12-05  aw1988: Of course. Can't believe I missed it, thanks.
Mar-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: Why did black give up control of the eighth rank? 28...Ra4 wasn't necessary.
Mar-21-21  mel gibson: Stockfish 13 came up with the same move as I did. Move the Queen to a better square as it's under attack.

23. Qh4

(23. Qh4 (♕g3-h4 ♖a8xa2 ♘f4xd5
♖a2xd2 ♖e1xe5 ♖g8xg2+ ♔g1xg2 ♕d6xe5 ♕h4xh6+ ♕e5-g7+ ♕h6xg7+ ♔f8xg7 ♘d5-e3 ♔g7-f8 ♖b1-c1 d7-d6 ♘e3-c4 ♖d2-e2 ♖c1-d1 ♖e2-e6 ♘c4xd6 ♖e6-f6 ♖d1-d5 c5-c4 ♘d6-f5 ♔f8-g8 ♖d5-c5 ♔g8-h7 ♘f5-g3 ♖f6-g6 ♗b5xc4 ♘b8-d7 ♖c5-a5 ♘d7-b6 ♗c4-d3 ♔h7-g7 ♗d3xg6 f7xg6 ♔g2-f3 ♘b6-c8 ♖a5-a8 ♘c8-e7 ♖a8-a7 ♔g7-f7 ♘g3-e4 ♔f7-e6 ♘e4-g5+ ♔e6-f6) +5.17/37 156)

score for White +5.17 depth 37.

Mar-21-21  Walter Glattke: 23.Ne6+dBxe6 24.Bxh6+ Rg7 25.Bxg7+ Ke7 26.Rxe5 / 23.Ne6+ Ke7 24.Qxg8 Bxh2+ 25.Kh1 Rxa2 26.Bxh6 Bf8+/ 23.Ne6+ always wins
Mar-21-21  Walter Glattke: 23.Ne6+fxe6 24.Bxh6+ Kf7 25.Qd3 Rxg2+ 26.Kf1 Rxh2!? 27.Qh7+ Bg7 28.Be2 Nc6 29.Rbd1 +-
Mar-21-21  newzild: I found 23. Rxe5 Rxg3 24. Rxd5 almost immediately, and was congratulating myself on how easy it all was for me until I saw <mel gibson>'s post.
Mar-21-21  Tomate: It is enough to count. After 23.Rxe5 white wins 3 pieces for a queen or two pieces for the rook. Indeed after 23.Rxe5 Rxg3 (23..Qxe5 24.Ng6+ loses the queen) 24.Rxd5 Black has a choice of A) 24..Qxd5 25.Nxd5 and white has two pieces for the rook B) 24..Q move 25.hxg3 and white has three pieces for the queen (likely 24..Rxg2+ 25.Kxg2 Q-move is relatively better for black)
Mar-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black threatens Rxg3 and Bxf4-Rxg2, eventually.

The only option I can find is 23.Rxe5:

A) 23... Rxg3 24.Rxd5 followed by the capture of the rook (24... Qxd5 25.Nxd5 wins the bishop pair for a rook) with rook and the bishop pair for the queen.

B) 23... Qxe5 24.Ng6+ Rxg6 25.Qxe5 Rxg2+ 26.Kf1 wins decisive material.

C) 23... Bb7 24.Re8+ Kxe8 25.Qxg8+ Ke7 26.Re1+ wins.

Mar-21-21  Brenin: I stopped looking once I saw that 23 Rxe5 would win R+2B for the Q, or equivalent material gain. I don't think I would have found <mel gibson>'s SF suggestion 23 Qh4 in a year of Sundays.
Mar-21-21  Walter Glattke: B2) 23. Rxe5 Qxe5 24.Ng6+ Rxg6 25.Qxe5 Bxg2 26.h4 Be4+ / 26.Qh8+ Rg8 27.Qxg8+ / 26.Rc1 Bh3+ so far, Bxg2 better than Rxg2
Mar-21-21  mel gibson: This is crazy -
I ran Stockfish 13 again and
now it's agreeing with the text solution.
It's slightly better than the 23. Qh4 solution.

23. Rxe5

(23. Rxe5 (♖e1xe5 ♖g8xg3 ♖e5xd5
♖g3xg2+ ♔g1xg2 ♕d6-f6 ♖d5xc5 ♘b8-c6 ♗b5xc6 d7xc6 ♗d2-e3 ♕f6-e7 ♔g2-g1 ♕e7-e4 ♖b1-c1 ♖a8-a3 ♖c5-c4 ♖a3xe3 f2xe3 ♕e4xe3+ ♔g1-h1 c6-c5 ♘f4-g2 ♕e3-d2 a2-a4 ♔f8-g8 ♖c4-c2 ♕d2-a5 ♖c2xc5 ♕a5xa4 ♖c5-c4 ♕a4-a6 ♖c4-c3 ♕a6-a2 ♖c3-f3 ♔g8-f8 ♖c1-f1 ♕a2-d5 ♖f3-f6 ♔f8-g7 ♖f6-f5 ♕d5-d7 h2-h3 ♕d7xf5 ♖f1xf5) +5.40/40 329)

score for White +5.40 depth 40

Mar-21-21  Refused: 23.Rxe5 picks up a lot of wood for the queen.

23.Rxe5 Rxg3 (23...Qxe5? 24.Ng6+) 24.Rxd5 Rxg2 25.Kxg2 +-

Mar-21-21  RandomVisitor: Very close between 23.Qh4 and 23.Rxe5:


click for larger view

Stockfish_21031920_x64_modern:

<46/67 36:01 +6.29 23.Qh4> Rxa2 24.Nxd5 Rxd2 25.Rxe5 Rxg2+ 26.Kxg2 Qxe5 27.Qxh6+ Qg7+ 28.Qxg7+ Kxg7 29.Ne3 Kh8 30.Rc1 d6 31.Nc4 Rd4 32.Kg3 Kg7 33.h4 Kg6

<46/64 36:01 +5.86 23.Rxe5 Rxg3 24.Rxd5 Rxg2+ 25.Kxg2 Qf6> 26.Rxc5 Nc6 27.Bxc6 dxc6 28.Be3 Qe7 29.Kg1 Qe4 30.Rbc1 Ra3 31.Ng2 Qf3 32.Bxh6+ Ke8 33.Rxc6 Rxa2

Mar-21-21  goodevans: Either I've suddenly got a whole lot better or this weekend's puzzles have been way too easy. Sadly, I think it's the latter.
Mar-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Vocal in i Rxe5 finish abled it leeway aghast rig in vocal mockz it eg in i er germ in brink quibble whats fat hurry puzzled its kants volt gomez it because in i flushed it ok in tot add hoody cub focus it edict in i er Rxe5 bite;
Mar-21-21  TheaN: Puzzle's a bit moot. I didn't have a lot of time so kind of settled on Rxe5 early as "it must be the Sunday move"; somehow I missed the White queen was in, as well as 23....Qxe5 24.Ng6+, so as much for 'solving'.

However, looking at the position a bit more thoroughly, why is this a puzzle in the first place? White has the better position.

Yeah, fair, the only alternative is 23.Qh4 to defend Bf4 and run out of the attack, but it's 'suffices' to maintain control. SF gives 23....Rxa2, but the point is 23....Bxf4 24.Bxf4 Rxg2+ 25.Kf1 +- and pressure is maintained.

Sure, 23.Rxe5 is more flashy and simplifies. The White pieces show an undeniable harmony at the end, but it's already clear after Kxg2 that White's winning without afterthought.

Mar-21-21  RandomVisitor: A final look, after 22...Rg8:


click for larger view

Stockfish_21031920_x64_modern:

<57/74 7:37:33 +6.86 23.Rxe5 Rxg3 24.Rxd5 Rg6> 25.Rxd6 Rxd6 26.Be3 Kg7 27.Bxc5 Rd2 28.a4 Nc6 29.Ra1 Nd4 30.Bb4 Rc2 31.Bd3 Rc6 32.a5 Nc2 33.Bxc2 Rxc2

<56/74 7:37:33 +6.54 23.Qh4 Bxg2> 24.Nxg2 Rg6 25.Qd8+ Kg7 26.Rbd1 Qf6 27.Qxf6+ Kxf6 28.a4 Nc6 29.Kh1 Bd4 30.Nf4 Rg5 31.Ne2 Re5 32.Bf4 Re4 33.Bg3 Rae8

Mar-21-21  mel gibson: <Mar-21-21 RandomVisitor: A final look, after 22...Rg8:

Stockfish_21031920_x64_modern:

<57/74 7:37:33 +6.86 23.Rxe5 Rxg3 24.Rxd5 Rg6> 25.Rxd6 Rxd6 26.Be3 Kg7 27.Bxc5 Rd2 28.a4 Nc6 29.Ra1 Nd4 30.Bb4 Rc2 31.Bd3 Rc6 32.a5 Nc2 33.Bxc2 Rxc2

<56/74 7:37:33 +6.54 23.Qh4 Bxg2> 24.Nxg2 Rg6 25.Qd8+ Kg7 26.Rbd1 Qf6 27.Qxf6+ Kxf6 28.a4 Nc6 29.Kh1 Bd4 30.Nf4 Rg5 31.Ne2 Re5 32.Bf4 Re4 33.Bg3 Rae8>

When you write:
57/74 +6.86 23.Rxe5

Does the 57 mean 57 plies ahead?
What does the 74 mean?
The 7:37:33 - does that mean - 7 hours , 37 minutes and 33 seconds of processing time?

Mar-21-21  RandomVisitor: <mel gibson>57/74 means 57 plies of search, with a peak depth of 74 due to "extensions," such as re-captures, checks, forced moves, etc.

The time given is in hours, minutes, seconds, so yes.

Mar-21-21  RandomVisitor: After 8...Qb6 it appears white must give back the pawn, he has a choice in the way to do this:


click for larger view

Stockfish_21031920_x64_modern:

57/73 4:16:46 +0.67 9.a4 Nxd5 10.Nf3 e6 11.0-0 Be7 12.e4 Nb4 13.Ng5 h6 14.Qh5 g6 15.Qh3 N8c6 16.Nf3 Nc2 17.Rad1 Ba6 18.b3 N6d4 19.Nxd4 Nxd4

57/75 4:16:46 +0.52 9.Nf3 Nxd5 10.a4 e6 11.0-0 Be7 12.e4 Nb4 13.Bf4 0-0 14.Bxb8 Rfxb8 15.Ne5 Qc7 16.Qxd7 Qxe5 17.Qxe7 Nc6 18.Qh4 Nd4 19.f4 Qf6

<57/74 4:16:46 +0.27 9.Qf3 e6 10.e4 exd5 11.exd5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 Qe6+ 13.Ne2 Bxd5 14.Qg3 Bd6> 15.f4 0-0 16.0-0 Na6 17.Nc3 Nc7 18.Rfe1 Qf6 19.Bxd7 Rab8

Notice that in the 9.Qf3 line the machine would follow the game moves until playing 15.f4

Mar-21-21  mel gibson: <Mar-21-21 RandomVisitor: <mel gibson>57/74 means 57 plies of search, with a peak depth of 74 due to "extensions," such as re-captures, checks, forced moves, etc.

The time given is in hours, minutes, seconds, so yes.>

Wow - that's a lot of processing time.

You can see above
23. Qh4 +5.17/37 156
and
23. Rxe5 +5.40/40 329

I took 156 seconds and 329 seconds
for the 2 options chosen.
I'm using an i7 quad core -
the old i7 2600K Sandy Bridge
and I allocate 8 Gig of RAM for the hash table and WIN board in the engine management.
I'm using the Arena interface with Stockfish 13.

As an extra -
I find that just setting the engine to self play mode and 2 seconds per move
gives me a good idea of where the game is going while I watch it. Do you do that too?

What are your specs?
Do you think you are allocating too much time?

Mar-22-21  RandomVisitor: <mel gibson>I also use the Arena interface, but with the latest development build of Stockfish, which is noted in the funny timestamp next to the engine name. Self play mode for 2 seconds is an interesting idea I have not looked into that much. As far as specs, I have 7 working computers and a number of them that no longer work that I am fixing. I forget the individual specs but they are not new. As far as allocating too much time for analysis runs, I frequently set up positions and then go off and do other things, returning later to see if anything interesting came from the long run.
Mar-22-21  mel gibson: <Mar-22-21 RandomVisitor: <mel gibson>I also use the Arena interface, but with the latest development build of Stockfish, which is noted in the funny timestamp next to the engine name. Self play mode for 2 seconds is an interesting idea I have not looked into that much. As far as specs, I have 7 working computers and a number of them that no longer work that I am fixing. I forget the individual specs but they are not new. As far as allocating too much time for analysis runs, I frequently set up positions and then go off and do other things, returning later to see if anything interesting came from the long run.>

I am using Stockfish 13 win x 64 modern.
There is a better version I think but my i7 2600K would not be able to run it as it has
a new instruction in its set.
That is the BMI2 (Bit Manipulation Instruction Set 2)

https://stockfishchess.org/download/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_m...

So I have the
64-bit: Maximally compatible but slow version.
I could be wrong and perhaps I could run the
BMI2 version?

Mar-22-21  mel gibson: Hi Random,
I just tried the BMI2 version and it doesn't work on my i7 2600K Sandy Bridge even though
the notes from Stockfish 13 download say that it will. I am back to the Stockfish 13 win x 64 modern.
search thread:   
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