chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Magnus Carlsen vs Nurlan Ibraev
Calvia Olympiad (2004), Calvia ESP, rd 10, Oct-25
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Classical. Berlin Variation (E38)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 74 times; par: 17 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 3,658 more games of Carlsen
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Olga is our default viewer, but we offer other choices as well. You can use a different viewer by selecting it from the pulldown menu below and pressing the "Set" button.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-17-08  zenpharaohs: Did they give this puzzle just to stop me from picking bones with the subsequent game line in these puzzles?
Jan-17-08  Fourpointo: So what was 16. Qf5 for? Why not just 16. Rxf6?
Jan-17-08  zb2cr: Found this one, though it took me about 4 minutes (after 5 minutes I normally give up).
Jan-17-08  Duque Roquero: <FourpointoSo: what was 16. Qf5 for? Why not just 16. Rxf6?> Ne4 is not possible because Bxe4.
Jan-17-08  Avarus: First I thought there was some finesse to it but "settled" for the winning line when I found Ba3 + Ne4. I have to say I did not consider <YouRang>'s ..Nb4! as a serious defense, but it is better then just losing on the spot.
Jan-17-08  wals: Making notes of my "think" to interpret
and organize the data available
White has more territory on the Queenside, the centre, and the Kingside. The diagonal b1 to h7 is open.
Removinng Nf6 would result in mate
Post mortem....It certainly did
Jan-17-08  bakit: maybe Grampmaster can answer my query
Jan-17-08  patzer2: For today's Thursday puzzle solution, White's 17. Rxf6! removes the guard (i.e. deflection) to set up the winning double attack described in <fm avari viraf>'s post.
Jan-17-08  Akuni: Pretty obvious for a thursday puzzle.
Jan-17-08  Grampmaster: <bakit if 16.Qf5! hxg5> then how about 17.hxg5 instead of Rxf6? With the open h file, Black's Knight on f6 under immediate double attack and the White rook on d6 still menacing Black and the White bishop can take up residence on a3 at anytime.

Looks like a position that even an old patzer like me would love to play.

Jan-17-08  JG27Pyth: Folks are giving 16.Qf5 an exclamation point -- well, ok maybe. But I rather think 15...h6 deserves a big fat question mark. Did Ibraev really think 15...h6 would chase the N? IMO, it doesn't take great tactical or positional vision to see that after black takes the N, and white plays hxg5 the white rook pointing at the king along the open h file will be decisive. I spent a good part of my problem-solving time wondering if there was some way I could _compel_ Ibraev to play hxg5.

Jan-17-08  dzechiel: <patzer2: For today's Thursday puzzle solution, White's 17. Rxf6! removes the guard (i.e. deflection) to set up the winning double attack described in <fm avari viraf>'s post.>

Actually, FM Viraf's post is incorrect as he gives 19 Ba3+ instead of the winning 19 Ne4 first.

Jan-17-08  Steve Case: Should have been Monday's puzzle.
Jan-17-08  NateDawg: <<bakit> if somebody kindly explain why 16.Qf5 ? i would have moved 16.f3 preventing 16...Be4. but then i'm an 1800. thx in advance> 16...♗e4 is not possible because of 17. ♘xe4. There is no need to prevent it with 16. f3.
Jan-17-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  OBIT: 17. Rxf6 is the simplest solution. Just to be different, though, how about 17. c5!?. The idea is Bc4, putting tremendous pressure on the f-pawn.

Black has great difficulty finding a useful move here. 17...Ne7 allows 18. Qxe5, opening the long diagonal to the bishop on b2. If 17...Qe7 18. Bc4 Nd8 19. Qg6 and White breaks through. Agreed, 17. c5 is not as clear as in the game, but it certainly looks like it gives White an unstoppable attack.

Jan-17-08  NateDawg: <OBIT> 17. c5 ♘e7 18. ♕xe5 allows 18...♘c8! with a double attack on queen and rook. However, White doesn't seem to have anything better, so Fritz evaluates the position after 17. ♘e7 as .
Jan-17-08  NateDawg: It seems that 16...♘c6? was Black's big mistake, as the bishop controlling e4 was the key to Black's defense. After 16...♕e7 Black can defend according to Fritz. 17. ♖xf6 ♕xf6 18. ♕h7+ ♔f8 19. ♗a3+ d6 20. ♗d3 ♔e7 21. ♘e4 ♗xe4 22. ♗xe4 ♘d7 23. ♗xa8 ♖xa8 24. ♖d1 ♘c5 and Black isn't too bad.


click for larger view

Jan-17-08  UdayanOwen: <Grampmaster: <bakit if 16.Qf5! hxg5> then how about 17.hxg5 instead of Rxf6? With the open h file, Black's Knight on f6 under immediate double attack and the White rook on d6 still menacing Black and the White bishop can take up residence on a3 at anytime.

Looks like a position that even an old patzer like me would love to play.>

I agree that white is winning in this variation but for the moment he is a piece down, and I spent a lot of time analyzing before settling on a clear winning continuation. The position does not play itself and requires accurate play:

<16.Qf5 hxg5 17.hxg5 Ne4 18.Qh7+ Kf8 19.Ba3 Nc5.>

I initially gave up on this line thinking black was OK (obviously 20.Qh8+ Ke7 is bad, since queen and rook are both en prise).

After trying in vain to create alternative mating nets, I came back to this position and found <20.Bxc5 bxc5 21.Rf6> (This move works tactically since 21...gxf6 fails to 22.Qh8+ Ke7 23.Qxf6+ Kf8 24.Rh8#) The move 21.Rf6 generates multiple threats that allow white to build a winning position. The critical threat is 22.Qg6, with the threat of mate on f7. This concept is supported tactically by the following ideas:

22...R or Qe7 23.Rh8#

22...gxf6 23.Rh8+ Ke7 24.Qxf6+ Kf8 25.Rh8#

22...Qxf6 23.Rh8+ (23.gxf6?? fxg6 ) 23...Ke7 24.gxf6+, taking with check and allowing white to subsequently save his own queen.

The only move that stops all this after 21.Rf6 is <21...d6>. Now 22.Qg6 doesn't work, since 22...gxf6 23.Rh8+ Ke7 24.Qf6+ and now the king has a flight path with 24...Kd7

However, forcing the passive 21...d6 has given white time to play <22.Qh8+ Ke7 23.Qxg7>, which works now because the rook is defended. Now white threatens to mate on f7, which forces <23...Rf8> (black loses quickly in all variations if he doesn't defend f7).

Now I spent a lot of time analyzing 24.Rh7 Qe8... There is a lot of stuff happening and I haven't come to conclusions about this.

I eventually realized that the most accurate way to win swiftly is <24.Rhh6 >. Now the obvious threat is 25.Re6+ Kd7 26.Rxd6+, with a winning skewer. It turns out there is no defence:

24...Ke8 25.Re6+ fxe6 (other moves lose the queen for rook) 26.Rxe6+ Qe7 27.Qxe7#

24...Bc8 (guarding e6) and now 25.Rxd6 Qxd6 (25...Qc7 26.Qxe5+ Be6 27.Rgxe6+ fxe6 28.Qxe6#) 26.Rxd6 with a winning material advantage (if 26...Kxd6 27.Qxf8 ).

24...Qc7 25.Rxd6 (threatening 26.Rge6#) 25...Bc8 with a transposition to the previous mating line 26.Qxe5+ (25...Qxd6 also loses in similar fashion to the previous line).

24...Qc8 25.Rd6+ Kd7 (25...Qxe6 26.Rxe6+ Kxe6 27.Rxf8 ) 26.Rxd6+ Kc7 27.Qxe5 , when black cannot effectively meet the threatened 28.Rc6++, which will lead to mate or winning material advantage.

Jan-18-08  wals: Analysis by Fritz 11: depth 19/42 time 12.21

1. (7.10): 17...Qd8xf6 18.Qf5-h7+ Kg8-f8 19.Ng5-e4 Re8-e6 20.Ne4xf6 Re6xf6 21.f2-f4 d7-d6 22.Qh7-h8+ Kf8-e7 23.Qh8xg7 Rf6-g6 24.Qg7-h7 Ra8-d8 25.h4-h5 Rg6-f6 26.Qh7-g7 Nc6-b4 27.f4xe5 Nb4xa2+ 2. (#16): 17...h6xg5 18.h4xg5 Nc6-d4 19.Qf5-h3 Kg8-f8 20.Bb2-a3+ d7-d6 21.Rf6xd6 Nd4xb3+ 22.a2xb3 Qd8xg5 23.Rd6xb6+

(, 19.01.2008)

Jan-18-08  bakit: Granpmaster and NateDawg... how do you counter 16.Qf5 hxg5 17.hxg5 Be4 18.Qh3 Nh7 would give black the defense. so why the 16.Qf5 still? thanks again.
Jan-19-08  Grampmaster: <bakit: Grampmaster and NateDawg...how do you counter 16.Qf5 hxg5 17.hxg5 Be4 18.Qh3 Nh7 would give black the defense?>

I'd play 19.f3 Bf5 20.g4 then Bxg4 loses to 21.Qxh7# or if 20...Bg6 then 21.Rxg6 followed by 22.Qxh7#

Interesting position wasn't it?

Jan-19-08  NateDawg: <bakit> 16. ♕f5 hxg5 17. hxg5 ♗e4 18. ♕h3 ♘h7 and 19. ♗d3! wins by removing the knight's defender.


click for larger view

19...♗xd3 20. ♖xd3 d6 21. ♕xh7+ ♔f8 22. ♗a3 ♖e6 23. ♕e4!, and White is threatening 24. ♕xa8 and 24. ♖h8+.

Jan-26-08  Fourpointo: <Ne4 is not possible because Bxe4.>

Who said anything about Ne4? I'm talking 17. Qh7.

Feb-04-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: A few months after this game someone tried again to play that dubious line for Black (deviating on move 13), this time against Carlsen's second - and it turned out very badly for him as well (P H Nielsen vs S Collas, 2005).
May-21-08  Duque Roquero: <Fourpointo: So what was 16. Qf5 for? Why not just 16. Rxf6?> As <<fm avari viraf>> pointed out, “Qxf6 [ if ...gxf6 then White mates in 2 moves ] 18.Qh7+ Kf8 19.Ba3+ d6 20.Ne4 & Black will either have to part his Queen or get mated”. This last move (Ne4) is not possible before 16. … Nc6 which obstructed the black bishop. I think that’s why 16. Rxf6 can’t work.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
17 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by nionios
MAGNUS CARLSEN'S BEST GAMES
by alip
Nolan's Road Crew
by fredthebear
sensational2007's favorite games
by sensational2007
MAGNUS CARLSEN'S BEST GAMES
by notyetagm
exact play would be needed
from CHESS ANALYSIS by wals
Nimzo-Indian Def: Classical. Berlin Var (E38) 1-0 Fishin' Pole
from 2004 - 2007 W's 2nd Term ECO A-D-E by FTB by fredthebear
17 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by wwall
Game collection: 8
by gr2ca1
17.? (Thursday, January 17)
from POTD Nimzo Indian 1 by takchess
Nimzo Indian Defense ( White)
by bmcniece
17 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by 3sun3moon
magnus carlsen ..
by sk.sen
Tactics - 1
by obrit
Miniature
from The Carlsen Chronicles Part I - Wonderboy by MoonlitKnight
Nimzo-Indian Def: Classical. Berlin Var (E38) 1-0 Fishin' Pole
from 2004 - 2007 W's 2nd Term ECO A-D-E by FTB by trh6upsz

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC