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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
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| Feb-16-14 | | PJs Studio: I'm crazy enough to whip out something like Nd5 over the board...and then screw up the attack. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | actinia: I didn't get every single detail, but I got the first move and follow up ideas, including white's h5 and qf7+. I'm going to give myself credit for a rare, rare sunday puzzle solved. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | mistreaver: Sunday. White to play. 19. Insane.
I don't see anything more promising then trying a d5 breakthrough.
19 d5!
A)
if black takes on c3
19 ... Bxc3
20 Bxc3 cxd5
21 Qe5 is devastating
B)
19 ... cxd5
20 exd5 and now:
B1)
20 ... Bxc3
21 Bxc3 Bxd5
22 Qd4 seems good
B2)
20 ... Bd7
21 Qf7+ Qxf7
22 Rxf7+ and
23 Rxd7
B3)
20 ... Bc8
21 Qf7+ Qxf7
22 Rxf7+ Kg6
23 Ne4
and i don't know, this is probably nothing for white.
And i didn't play any crazy move, so time to check.
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Ahhh, when i looked at Nd5 i missed the mate on f5 if black takes with the bishop. But in any case i wouldn't have found all the resources and winning moves.
Oh and btw 19 d5 is refuted by 19... Bc5 and 20... Rf8 |
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| Feb-16-14 | | actinia: <mistreaver> great effort, I think this is what Sunday puzzles are supposed to be about. I've solved 3 in about 10 years! |
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| Feb-16-14 | | actinia: monday-wednesday... ? no problem. thurs-sat... okay, probably this? Sunday: "I don't know... maybe this? maybe???" |
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| Feb-16-14 | | morfishine: (1) White is down a piece but up 2 pawns (2) White is positionally better due his pawn center, control of the f-file and powerful Bishop on <e5> (3) White is threatening to win another pawn with Bxc7 (4) Black threatens Qxh4 (5) The b1-h7 diagonal is critical; If White can check with his Queen on this diagonal, he can force mate (White cannot play 19.d5 due to 19...Bc5+ 20.Kh1 Qxh4+) <19.Nd5> A powerful move and sacrifice; after 19...cxd5 20.exd5 Bxd5? 21.Qf5# or 20...Bd7 21.Qe4+ forces mate <19...cxd5 20.exd5 Bf7> The only way to contest the b1-h7 diagonal is with 21...Bg6 <21.Qxf7+ Qxf7 22.Rxf7+> Although a piece down, White should win by pushing pawns *****
PM: After reading the posts, I now see Black defended poorly with 19...Rf8 being much better ***** |
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| Feb-16-14 | | LAK: Beautiful attack!
I saw that if the Black Bishop on e6 was diverted from the h3-c8 diagonal then Qf5 is mate. So, how to remove that Bishop? I only considered d5. Although that produces some nice combinations if Black takes the pawn or moves the Bishop to d7 or c8, or even play Qc5+, unfortunately it loses horribly to the simple Bc5+. You see, the Black Queen eyes menacingly the pawn on h4. It turns out that the d4 pawn must stay on that square to keep the g1-a7 diagonal shut. 19. Nd5!! is a wonderful move in that it throws down the gauntlet at Black to take the Knight and suffer the consequence of opening the b1-h7 diagonal, while at the same time it attacks the Black Queen, and the Black Bishop on b4. At a minimum, the three Black candidate moves to be calculated are 19. ... c6xNd5, 19. ... Rf8, and 19. ... Bd2. Since I did not even see 19. Nd5, here's Stockfish's evaluation for each: 19. Nd5 cxd5 20. exd5 h5 21. dxe6 Rf8 22. Qe4+ Kh6 23. Rxf8 Qxf8 24. Bf4+ Kg7 25. Qe5+ Qf6 26. Qxc7+ Kg6 27. Be5 Qf8 28. Qxa7 Be7 29. c4 Qc8 30. Qd7 Qxd7 31. exd7 Nf6 32. Bxf6 Kxf6 33. c5 Ke6 34. c6 Bxh4 35. b4 Kd6 36. b5 Kc7 37. a4 Bf6 38. Kf2 h4 39. d5 Bd4+ 40. Ke2 h3
+ (2.83--) Depth: 40/64 0:10:43 4676 MN
19. Nd5 Bd2 20. Qxd2 cxd5 21. exd5 Bf7 22. Qf4 Bg6 23. Qxg4 h5 24. Qf4 Bxc2 25. Rc1 Rf8 26. Qd2 Bg6 27. Rxc7
+ (2.73--) Depth: 38/64 0:04:00 1644 MN
19. Nd5 Rf8 20. Nxe7 Rxf4 21. Rxf4 Bxe7 22. h5 Bd6 23. Bxd6 cxd6 24. Rf8 Bxa2 25. Rd8 Nf6 26. Rxd6 Nxe4 27. Rxc6 Bf7 28. Ra6 Kg7 29. Rxa7 Kf6 30. Ra6+ Kg7 31. Ra5 g3 32. b4 Kf6 33. b5 Bd5 34. b6 Nc3 35. Kf1 Be4 36. Ra7
+ (2.89++) Depth: 38/58 0:03:29 1437 MN |
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| Feb-16-14 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: As so often this week, I'm stuck.
My first idea is that the e6 bishop is overloaded, in that: If it stops defending f5, Qf5 can be mate.
If it stops defending f7, Qf7+ looks like a nasty mate threat (which can however be defended against by running to h5) and probably does actually win a piece. Exploiting it, however, is difficult, as per for example: 19 d5 Bc5+
20 Rf2 Qf7
or 19 Nd5 cxd5
20 ed5 Bc8
21 Qf7+
and White recovers some but not all of his sacrificed material. |
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Feb-16-14
 | | agb2002: White has two pawns for a bishop.
Black threatens 19... Rf8, simplifing the position and ... Qxh4. If the e-pawn or Black's lsb disappeared then White would deliver mate with Qe4 or Qf5. This suggests 19.d5: A) 19... Rf8 20.Qxf8 Qxf8 21.Rxf8 Bxf8 22.dxe6 with two extra pawns and the better ending. B) 19... cxd5 20.exd5
B.1) 20... h6 21.Qe4+ Kh6 22.dxe6
B.1.a) 22... Rf8 23.Rf7 Rxf7 (23... Nf6 24.Bf4#) 24.exf7 seems to win a piece (24... Qxf7 25.Qxb4; 24... Nf6 25.Bxf6 Qxf6 26.Qxb4). B.1.b) 22... Bxc3 23.Qxa8 Bxe5 24.Qxg8 + - [R+2P vs B]. B.2) 20... Rf8 21.Qe4+ Bf5 22.Rxf5 is crushing.
B.3) 20... Bf7 21.Qxf7+ Qxf7 22.Rxf7+ Kg6 23.Rxf7 with three extra pawns. C) 19... Bxc3 20.Bxc3 cxd5 21.exd5 Qc5+ (21... Bxd5 22.Qf5#) 22.Bd4 Qxd5 23.c4 (23.Qxc7+ Bd7 but not 23... Qd7 24.Qxd7+ Bxd7 25.Rf7+) 23... Qc6 (23... Qxc4 24.Qe4+ Bf5 25.Qxf5#) 24.Qe5 Qd7 (24... Kg6 25.h5+ Kh7 26.Qg7#) 25.Qe4+ Bf5 26.Rxf5 wins. |
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Feb-16-14
| | agb2002: I forgot the threat Qxh4 and 19.d5 loses miserably to 19... Bc5+. Ironically, 19.Nd5 was my first idea but thought that a knight was a considerable expense compared with a pawn. Better luck next Sunday. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | anandrulez: Awesome game ! If we click on Javascript board(ie the default board) e3 square it loads random position in this game . Perhaps a development feature ? |
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Feb-16-14
 | | patzer2: Looks like I need to correct a few things on my posts from April 2005: < After the smoke clears (i.e. exchanges), White's extra piece (the Bishop) is good for an easy win.> After 26. Qf7+ Bxf7 27. Rxf7+ Rg7 28. Rxg7+ Kh8 29. Rxe7+ Kg8 30. Rxd7  (diagram below), 
click for larger viewWhite is up a Bishop and a Rook (not just a Bishop).
< Black's 19...Bd2?! was a mistake, since his last chance to hold was 19...Rf8!?> Black is busted after 19. Nd5! no matter what he plays. My line today, forgetting I'd seen the position before, was 19. Nd5! Bd2 20. Qxd2 cxd2 21. exd5 Bf7! 22. Qf4! which wins slowly but surely by building a monster pawn roller in the center after 22...Bg6 23. Bxc7 h5 24. c4 (diagram below): 
click for larger viewHere, White's three passed pawns in the center are worth far more than Black's extra piece (+2.24 @ 20 depth per Fritz 12 on my 2.1 GHZ dual core processor). P.S.: It's not as flashy as the game continuation 21. Qf4!, but 21. exd5 looks to be a sure win for White. |
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Feb-16-14
 | | Penguincw: And I finish 0/7 this week. :( Nice last move though. |
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Feb-16-14
 | | paulalbert: It was evident that the theme had to be clearing the b1 to h7 diagonal for mate threats by the white Q, and that meant threats diverting the black B on e6. I was fairly sure that 19. Nd5 was the right way to start with the double threat to Q and B as d5 didn't seem good enough. However, since white started a piece down for 2Ps, I wasn't sure how sure the win was particularly after a defense of Bf7 so Bg6 could be played if white doesn't go for Qxf7ch. I saw that h5 at some point to cover the g6 square would be a consideration at the appropriate time. Bottom line: I can find the ideas even on insane Sunday, but I cannot calculate accurately the variations necessary to play a move like Nd5 confident that it works. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | Patriot: White is up 2 pawns for a piece.
19.Nd5 seems best.
19...cxd5 20.exd5 Bxd5 21.Qf5#
19...cxd5 20.exd5 Bc8 21.Qf7+ Qxf7 22.Rxf7+ Kg6 23.Rg7+ Kh5 24.Rxg8 looks like a good fight. 19...cxd5 20.exd5 Rf8 21.Qxf8 Qxf8 22.Rxf8 Bxf8 23.dxe6 - I'm not sure how good this is. 19...Rf8 20.Qxf8 Qxf8 21.Rxf8 Bxf8 22.Nxc7 Bxa2 - I'm not clear on this. I think I would play 19.Nd5 here. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: My further notes are below. I missed that exd5 clears a second square on the key diagonal. I still don't see what refutes 19 ... Rf8. ---
Let's look again at 19 Nd5. Black only has a few responses that don't immediately lose a piece, namely 19 ... Qf8, 19 ... Rf8, 19 ... cxd5, and 19 ... Bxd5. 19 ... Bxd5 allows Qf5#, as does
19 ... Qf8
20 Nxb4 Qxb4
I don't see what to do against 19 .. Rf8 except exchange queens, gaining the exchange for rough material equality (rook and 2 pawns vs. 2 pieces). The main sacrificial line is
19 Nd5 cxd5
20 exd5 Bc8
21 Qf7+ Qxf7
22 Rxf7+ Kg6
23 Rg7+ Kh5
24 Rxg8 Bb7
White has 2 pawns for the bishop, and don't see why he should be excited about the position. |
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Feb-16-14
| | beenthere240: This game looks like something played in 1897. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | onur87: sorry. anybody give me information about 19.d5? my amateur inituation liked it. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: <onur87>,
Multiple comments on d5 above; the core problem is that it opens up Bc5+. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | Patriot: <<onur87>: sorry. anybody give me information about 19.d5? my amateur inituation liked it.> <morf> answered this question: <(White cannot play 19.d5 due to 19...Bc5+ 20.Kh1 Qxh4+)>. This is bad since white is slightly behind in material and trading queens in that situation leaves him with less attacking chances. Even trades when behind is generally a bad idea. |
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Feb-16-14
| | patzer2: <Cheapo by the Dozen> <I still don't see what refutes 19 ... Rf8.> It's not easy, but 19... Rf8 20. Nxe7 Rxf4 21. Rxf4 Bxe7 22. h5 Bd6 23. Kf2 Bxe5 24. dxe5 (diagram below) 
click for larger viewseems to give White just enough to squeeze out the endgame win (+2.46 @ 21 depth per Fritz 12). P.S.: No doubt 19...Rf8!? is Black's best practical chance to hold the draw, as it will require precise play to win this. |
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| Feb-16-14 | | navneet4751: 26 move for black be knight at c6 looks to be best move |
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| Feb-16-14 | | chesstoplay: About < 19 ... Rf8 > I talked to Yury tonight about this game and move.
I showed him that his game was the puzzle of the day. He was pleased by * some happy news *. He referred to the puzzle as < Removing the Guard > Black's LSB and < Clearing the Square > e4. His specific word was * annoying * for Black's game after < 19 ... Rf8 > . Black would endlessly be annoyed by his position move after move. OTB perfection is very difficult under the best of conditions. Here Black would struggle Over The Board every additional move. The chance of finding and holding any fighting draw would be dismal. :) |
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| Feb-17-14 | | onur87: Ovv.. sorry guys for 19.d5 ? I must open my eyes. :) |
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| Apr-29-15 | | waustad: Looking at this I kept thinking, "what the ..., oh it does work." |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 7.Nxf7