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Vladimir Kramnik vs Peter Svidler
"Corus and Verse" (game of the day Jan-06-2006)
Corus Group A (2005), Wijk aan Zee NED, rd 6, Jan-21
Sicilian Defense: Kan. Maroczy Bind Bronstein Variation (B41)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-06-06  schizoidman: <samikd> I play the Kan quite often and Bxc3 is not good IMHO. I always retreat it to e7 after being chased by the a-pawn.
Jan-06-06  Jarlaxle: In regards to promoting kramnik... there is no doubt that kramnik is a world class player, if not one of the best out today. but his failure to play in the big tournys and dodge every challenge given to him shows he is not world champion material and doesnt deserve promotion
Jan-06-06  sucaba: <patzer2>: <<Flyboy216> While 21...Kd7? loses quickly, it seems Black is lost even with the "best defense" move 21...Be6!? Playing it out with Fritz 8 gives the following analysis 21...Be6!? 22.Rxc3 b5(...)>

<(...) Such a shame about 21...Kd7, Black had a good chance of winning!>

I disagree with both. After 21. _ ♗e6 22. ♖xc3 ♖c8, White can repeat moves with 23. ♖d1+ ♔e8 24. ♖xc8+ ♗xc8 25. ♗c7 ♗d7 26. ♖e1+ ♔f8 27. ♖d1 ♔e8, but there doesn't seem to be a win.

Jan-06-06  artemis: Jarlaxle: great handle!! Mine is after Entreri... I am going to have to threaten to demolish you in chess games at every opportunity;)

Perhaps this illness, which sounds pretty bad, is the reason for both his poor level of play and his reluctance to play matches. If he knows he is not going to be up to par, then why not delay a little bit to try to get better and give it your best shot?

I still believe that noone should discount his title of World Champion. He toppled the giant in 2000. No one has beaten him. He did defend his title once in 4 years. Because he has the title, however, does not make him the best in the world. Topalov is the best chess player in the world. Kramnik is World Champion. It is a close distinction, which should be remedied, but the distinction still exists.

Jan-06-06  The17thPawn: <Patzer 2> Is <TheAussiePatzer> assumption about 14...exd4 leading to too much pressure from the white rooks correct or is their some other flaw. I can't see anything decisive without the benefit of a chess engine. Would you be willing to see what uncle Fritz has to say?
Jan-06-06  Jarlaxle: Thank you entreri, defended his title once in 4 years.. exactly why he deserves no promotion... as to his illness, Tal was very sick when he defended his title againt Bo, but that didnt stop him
Jan-06-06  Nezhmetdinov: I agree with Artemis
Jan-06-06  samikd: <schizoidman: <samikd> I play the Kan quite often and Bxc3 is not good IMHO. I always retreat it to e7 after being chased by the a-pawn.>

Why ? you don't think W's doubled pawns are bad for him ? or do you feel that you'd need the dark squared Bishop for the K-side ? thanks for the reply, by the way

Jan-06-06  cpryob123: I agree the Doubled pawns really do cause problems for white, and White follow up "attack" just caused him to lose his doubled pawns
Jan-06-06  cpryob123: His ending tactics justify his earlier positional weakness, though.
Jan-06-06  Xeeniner: why not 15. ...b5?
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <sucaba> After <21...Be6 22. Rxc3 Rc8 23. Rd1+ Ke8> (diagram below),

click for larger view

White wins with 24. Rcd3! Bc4 25. Rd4 Bb5 26. Bc7! Kf8 27. Rd8+ Rxd8 28. Rxd8+ Be8 29. Bd6+ Kg8 30. Rxe8+ .

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Patzer 2 Is <TheAussiePatzer> assumption about 14...exd4 leading to too much pressure from the white rooks correct or is their some other flaw.> I agree with <TheAussiePatzer> that 14...exd4 gives White too much pressure. After 14... exd4 15. e5 Qa5 16. cxd4 Ng8 17. Qf3 Qc7 18. d5 h6 19. Be3 , Black's position is cramped and ugly:

click for larger view

[ Position after 14... exd4 15. e5 Qa5 16. cxd4 Ng8 17. Qf3 Qc7 18. d5 h6 19. Be3 ]

Now Fritz 8 indicates Black may be able to hold for a bit in the face of a clear White advantage after 19...h5!? 20. Qg3 Bg4 21. h3 . However, I think most strong players would prefer a more active option over defending such a cramped position.

Note: If 19...Qxc4?? in the above position, White mates in three after 20. Qxf7+ Kd8 21. Bb6+ Qc7 22. Bxc7#.

Jan-07-06  sucaba: <patzer2> Yes, you are right, 21. _ ♗e6 22. ♖xc3 ♖c8 23. ♖d1+ ♔e8 24. ♖cd3 wins.
Sep-13-07  Gnappo: Fantastic game by Kramnik! I didn't believe that he can do brilliances like this one. It seems that Svidler plays too mechanicly here, maybe he can react before (16...g5!? 17 Rxf6 gxf4 18 cxd4 h3 19 g3) and not play 16... dxc3 that helps Kramnik to open the game and use his advantage of development activating his Rooks.
Jul-29-12  vinidivici: whats happen after
15.e5 h6


Jul-29-12  vinidivici: any answer?

Bit lazy to calculate though

Jul-29-12  vinidivici: whats up w/ 14...exd4?
Jul-29-12  Shams: <vinidivici> <Bit lazy to calculate though> You don't say. ;)

One line is: 14...exd4 15.e5 h6 16.exf6 hxg5 17.fxg7 Rg8 18.Rae1+ Kd7 19.Rxf7+ Kc6 20.Rf6+! and the King looks helpless.

Jul-29-12  vinidivici: <Shams> <20.Rf6+! and the King looks helpless.>

how about 20...Qxf6...?

Jul-30-12  Shams: <vinidivici> doh! Sloppy of me, apologies. Well, as you can plainly see Black can't fight off three heavy pieces in the middle of an open board. :)
Jul-30-12  vinidivici: Its okay sometimes we made a terrible mistake.

So whats the winning line after 14...exd4 in a very specific manner?

Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <vinidivici>
After 14...exd4 15.e5 h6 16. Bh4, doesn't it just transpose back to the actual game?
Jul-30-12  dzhafner: 14...exd4 15.e5 h6 16.exf6 hxg5 17.fxg7 Rg8 18.Rae1+ Kd7 19.Rxf7+ Kc6 20.Qg6+ Kc5 21.Re5+ (not cxd4+??? Qxd4+) Kxc4 Qc2.

if ...dxc3 Qa4+ forced #
if ...Bd7 cxd4+ ...Kxd4 Qb2+ ...Kc4 Qb4+

Jul-30-12  vinidivici: ^ thanks for the thorough analysis.

Its a long way to win

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