chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Wlodzimierz Schmidt vs Josef Augustin
Halle DSV (1976), Halle GDR, Oct-??
Zukertort Opening: Queen's Gambit Invitation (A04)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1 more W Schmidt/J Augustin game
sac: 37.Re8+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can display posts in reverse order, by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page and checking the option "Display newest kibitzes on top."

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-13-08  zb2cr: Combine Re8+ and Rg8+. Simple, but elegant. There's nothing to add to the description by <dzechiel>.
May-13-08  fragile: Monday and tuesdays are the only ones that I get and occasionally a wednesday. Solving these problems, I've noticed that I waste of lot time even on two move combinations when there are multiple options, the reason being that as I visualize it I seem to keep being led to think out the same line multiple times before I can get to the next possible approach. Anybody else facing the same problem?
May-13-08  zooter: <fragile: Monday and tuesdays are the only ones that I get and occasionally a wednesday. Solving these problems, I've noticed that I waste of lot time even on two move combinations when there are multiple options, the reason being that as I visualize it I seem to keep being led to think out the same line multiple times before I can get to the next possible approach. Anybody else facing the same problem?>

I don't seem to think that's a problem...Isn't it good to verify that your line is winning? If you have a winning line with clear material gain, why waste time thinking about other advantages only exception being checkmate when I spent quite some time analyzing if it was possible to checkmate the black king (note that white's king is protected by the pawn on d7 not letting the black rooks in)

May-13-08  backyard pawn: I quickly recognized 37. Rg8+, but what advantage did White gain by not playing that on move 36?
May-13-08  Billy Vaughan: Pretty easy. I'm pretty good a shepherding pawns to promotion. The rook check/fork on the 8th rank is a typical tactic; the deflection with Rg8+ is just a cherry on top.

You can't start with 37. Rg8+, though, or the king will just take the e7 rook.

May-13-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: Tuesday (Easy): White to play and win.

Material: Up a P. White has Pd7 on the 7-th rank, ready to queen. The Rg1 can deflect the Black K with Rg8+. An examination of checks, captures, and threats reveals the candidate for Tuesday (as usual).

Candidates (37.): Re8+, Rg8+

37.Re8+ Rxe8 38.Rg8+ Kxg8 [or Ke7, which is worse] 39.dxe8+

and White has a winning Q vs. R endgame. White threatens to break up the Q-side Ps into 2 islands with the move b4, wins a P with the Q's mobility, and then wins the R by threatening to queen the extra P.

May-13-08  MaxxLange: <The puzzle could also be the position after move 20, with White to make his 21st move>

Yes, that was a nice shot, wasn't it? After 21. Bxe4 fxe4 22. Nxe4 there seems to be no defense to Qc3+. So Black did not take the bishop. The exploiting of the e4 square after this was very instructive; White was totally winning after move 21.

May-13-08  griga262: This one seemed to take less time to solve than yesterday's.
May-13-08  fragile: <Zooter>, its good if you see the right line first. What I meant was that I sometimes think out a line which I finally figure leads to nowhere and then try taking another line but in the middle always I get pulled into thinking the prior line. For example, in todays puzzle my first thought was 37.Rg8+ I saw that it lead nowhere. I eventually figured out the solution but not without being lead to rething Rg8+ multiple times while I try to visualize Re8.
May-13-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: There is a more decisive promotion theme earlier than the puzzle position:

36.Re8+ Rf8 37.Rg1+ Kf7 38.Rf1+ Kg7 39.Rfxf8 Rxd7

and 2Rs have an easier time than Q against a lone R.

May-13-08  beenthere240: Sure looks like a Dutch defense to me.
May-13-08  zanshin: <dzechiel: I have either seen this one before, or I have seen this theme before.>

You solved this back on November 14, 2006.

May-13-08  zooter: <<fragile:> Well, different people think differently I guess>

How fitting is that I got into a position like this (below) some time back in an online game?

Black to play and win. -


click for larger view

Off course, in this position, black wins by 1...Rxc1+ 2.Kxc1 Ra1+ 3.Kc2 Qxb2# (the poor king covers the queen and rook's control of b2).

I was trying to conserve time and played the following without too much thought

1...Ra1+ 2.Kxa1 Rxc1+ 3.Ka2 Qh5+ 4.Kb3 Qb5+ and black is lost (5.Ka2 Qa4# or 5.Ka3 Ra1#)

Oh I must have loved the sham sacrifice when I saw that white's pieces cannot intercept on the a and b files and forgot to see the instant mate :-)

May-13-08  JG27Pyth: <Max Lange: Yes, that was a nice shot, wasn't it? After 21. Bxe4 fxe4 22. Nxe4 there seems to be no defense to Qc3+. So Black did not take the bishop.>

I saw it that way too... which is why I'm puzzled by 26. Qxf4... why not 26.Qc3+ trading queens and winning the exchange? Isn't this an improvement on the text... and from 21.Bxe4 we saw Schmidt already well aware of the a1-h8 diagonal and exploiting it...

May-13-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <<fragile> wrote: [snip] as I visualize it I seem to keep being led to think out the same line multiple times before I can get to the next possible approach. Anybody else facing the same problem?>

Yes, I had exactly this problem for a long time. The problem disappeared as I gained confidence that I could eliminate false starts once and for all, by demonstrating they do not win. On Sunday (G Laco vs M Lanzani, 1992), I found the key move only because I ran two false starts to completion and demonstrated to my satisfaction that they did not win.

Another thing that helped me was to train my board visualisation to recall key positions in a variation, and to avoid running through the variation from the beginning. You seem disciplined enough that you could learn to do the same if you practice.

May-13-08  JG27Pyth: Well, I'm answering my own post but I think I see why it wasn't played _and_ I still think Schmidt missed Qc3+, it doesn't win the exchange, it wins outright... black can resign...

26. Qc3+ Rf6 27.Nxf6! and black is finished, (he has no good answer for Ng8+... his best try might be 27...Qd4 but that fails to 28.Re7!)

I think he didn't play 26.Qc3+ because after ...Rf6 27.Qxf6+ Qxf6 28.Nxf6 Rg8 wins back material with interest.

...or did I miss something? (My chess has been wildly erratic lately... playing my best chess ever last week, and then yesterday made two piece hanging blunders _and_ failed on the Monday puzzle! :(

May-13-08  TheaN: 2/2

37.Re8+ Rxe8 38.Rg8 Kxg8 (Ke7 39.dxe8=Q+) 39.dxe8=Q+ wins easily.

Common theme, nice end though. 36.Rg1+ was a bit slow, though, as mentioned earlier.

May-13-08  JG27Pyth: In my previous post I say black has no answer for Ng8+ and although I believe that is correct, I think the threat of 28.Nh5+ is even stronger (and suggesting Ng8+ sort of leads one to wonder -- what was wrong with the more obvious Nh5?)
May-13-08  MaxxLange: <JG27Pyth> It looks to me like 26.Qc3+ Rf6 27. Qxf6+ Qxf6 28. Nxf6 wins outright. Black cannot play 28...Rg8 29. Rxg8#, and White threatens 29. Re7.

Unless we have something wrong, White just missed this line.

This is a blunder pattern I have noticed in my own games, by the way. When an idea does not work, or (in this case) you don't get to play it, you file it away in the dead letter office of your brain, and don't even think of it when it comes up again a few moves later.

May-13-08  cydmd: <johnlspouge> Have you thought about 36.Re8+ Rf8 37.Rg8+ Kh8! ?
May-13-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <<cydmd> wrote: <johnlspouge> Have you thought about 36.Re8+ Rf8 37.Rg8+ Kh8! ?>

Yes, but I only had time to post the line for best play before going out the door.

38.Rxf8 Rxf8 39.Re1 (threatening 40.Re8)

is much worse for Black than the line I gave.

May-13-08  JG27Pyth: <Max Lange:Black cannot play 28...Rg8 29. Rxg8#> Arrgh. I get inaccurate when I do notation without reference to the board, just in my head... 28...Rg8 is nonsense! I meant Rf8, but all the same you are right... the back rank threat also makes Rf8 a threat without teeth. White would win material, but if you check out my earlier post (hopefully without too many inaccuracies in the notation!) retaking with Nf6 is even stronger!

<...you file it away in the dead letter office of your brain...> exactly right. I'm very familiar with this phenomena. Something similarcomes up all the time solving puzzles... you miss some resource available and write off the winning line. And, as a corollary, then you obsessively return to recalculating the line you _want_ to make work, though you've proved it doesn't five different ways... and with that comment, we've linked our puzzle sidebar up with JohnLSpouge's :)

Flow chart, please.

May-13-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: This was very easy because there were so few moves to try--but what a beautiful puzzle it is!
May-13-08  MaxxLange: <JG27Pyth> We are missing simply 26. Qxc3+ Qe5
May-13-08  dzechiel: <zanshin: <dzechiel: I have either seen this one before, or I have seen this theme before.>

You solved this back on November 14, 2006.>

I knew this was familiar! I should have checked the earlier kibitzing. Thanks for the heads-up.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
puzzle 14/11/2006 white to play 37.?
from puzzles from18/7/2006 by vuchamchi
37. Re8+! is the first of two decoys to force the won position
from Queening Combinations by trh6upsz
37.? (November 14, 2006) [See also 05-13-08]
from Tuesday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
37 Re8+! trades down on loose two attackers, two defenders e8
from DECOY:LOOSENESS:Trading down on the loose square by notyetagm
37.? (Tuesday, May 13)
from Puzzle of the Day 2008 by Phony Benoni
95_Neglected {RR} endgames
by whiteshark
pf1450's favorite games
by pf1450
37. Re8+! is the first of two decoys to force the won position
from Queening Combinations by patzer2
37.? (Tuesday, November 14)
from POTD Reti + Nimzo-Larsen 1 by takchess
37. Re8+! is the first of two decoys to force the won position
from Queening Combinations by Jaredfchess
anthoniedm's favorite games
by anthoniedm
106
from Chess Informant 23 by Chessdreamer
Zukertort Opening: Queen's Gambit Invitation (A04) 1-0 37.?
from A04s of Fredthebear by fredthebear

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC