< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Aug-09-08|| ||Cuellargacharna: First. Just kidding. I have nothing else to do and I solved the puzzle.
Have a great day everybody!|
|Aug-09-08|| ||dbquintillion: Just kidding? Don't sell yourself short! You really were first. Congratulations!|
|Aug-09-08|| ||RandomVisitor: 24.b4 is worth a look.|
|Aug-09-08|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: Typical weekend puzzle. Got the first move, but not the correct follow-up. I'm off for 8-10 days. Be good, everyone.|
|Aug-09-08|| ||newzild: I got the key (23.Bxc5+), but not 24. Rac1.
I expected 24.Qc7+ and a king-hunt on the dark squares.
Anybody out there able to put some computer analysis into this position?
|Aug-09-08|| ||lost in space: 23. Bx5+ Kxc5
or 23...Ke6 24. Bxe7 25. f4 with white advantage. (This is the best defence, but the other line is more interesting)
24. b4+ Kxc4
or 24...Kd4 25. Qa7+ Kxc4 26. Rec1+ Rc3 27. Qc7+ Kxb4 28. Rab1+ Ka3 29. Qa5#
25. Rac1+ Rc3
or 25...Kd4 25. Qb6+ Bc5 27. Qxc5#
26. Qc6 Kxb4
or 26...Kd3 27. Qxc3#
27. Rb1 Ka3
or 27. Ka5 27. Qb5#
Great fun today. Time to check.
|Aug-09-08|| ||Slurpeeman: Got it. However, I was looking mostly at the second line on LIS's list (see above). It's clear that White must do something quickly as Black threatens a mate in two with N+Q|
|Aug-09-08|| ||dzechiel: White to move (23?). White has two pawns for a knight. "Very Difficult."|
Well, this seems to be one of those positions where the defender is hanging on by a thread, but if you give him a move, he'll be able to consolidate his position. I'm sure black would like to play something like ...Qa8/b8/c8 and force some exchanges.
However, it is white's turn, and the most forcing move I can see for white is
Black must make a decision: take the bishop, or run for it. I really don't think that black can take the bishop, eg:
23...Kxc5 24 Qc7+ Kd4 (24...Kb4 looks worse for black after 25 Qb6+) 25 Rac1!
This last move was hard for me to find. The threat is 26 cxd5 and 27 Rc4+. The black king is nicely bottled up. I think black is pretty dead here, but I haven't worked out all the lines.
More important is what if black rejects the bishop sac and plays
instead. True, white now has three pawns for the piece, as well as the initiative, but how to convert? I'm not seeing it. The best I have is
24 cxd5+ Rxd5 25 Qc6+ Kf5
Black's king is really offside here, but beyond that, I don't see how to proceed.
OK, that's it for me tonight, time to check and see if I got any of this right.
|Aug-09-08|| ||dzechiel: Looks like I got the move order wrong here. I don't know if it's important or not. I'd also be very interested in the analysis if black refuses the bishop.|
|Aug-09-08|| ||al wazir: After 23. Bxc5 Kxc5, I thought that 24. Qc7+ would finish black off.|
When I found the continuations 24...Kb4 25. Qb6+ Kc3 (25...Ka3 26. Qa5+ Kb2 27. Rab1+ Kc2 28. Rec1#) 26. Rac1+ Kb2 27. Rb1+ Kxa2 (27...Kc2/Kc3 28. Rec1+ Kd2 29. Qa5+ Ke2 30. Re1#) 28. Qa5+ Ba3 29. Ra1+ Kb2 30. Reb1+ Kc2 31. Qe1 with mate to follow, I was sure of it.
But then I looked again and saw 24...Kd4, and now I'm not so sure.
|Aug-09-08|| ||benveniste: If black refuses a bishop, in the prettiest line white, says "OK, how about a rook!"|
23. Bxc5+ Ke6
24. Bxe7 Nxe7
Boris has no answers. He can't decline this one without a quick mate. After Qe7+, black has an extra rook on h8, but it's useless in preventing the king hunt.
|Aug-09-08|| ||lost in space: Hi <dezechiel, benveiste>,|
after 23. Bxc5 Ke6 24. Bxe7 Nxe7 the best move is 25. Rxe5!, as mentioned by <benveiste> and not 25. f4 (my move in my first post).
25...Ke5 26. Qxe7 Kd4 27. Qf6+ Kc5 28. b4+!! Hasta la vista, baby.
|Aug-09-08|| ||kkshethin: I also got first move 23. Bxc5+ but no further.
Interestingly enough instead of played move 25. Rxc4+ (which deep shredder 11 evaluates at 8.48) program gives mate in seven by
click for larger view
Engine: Deep Shredder 11 UCI (64 MB)
by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
15/15 0:00 +M7 25.Qc7+ Kb5 26.bxc4+ Ka4 27.Qa7+ Kb4
28.a3+ Kb3 29.Qb6+ Ka4 30.Qb5+ Kxa3
31.Ra1+ (56.943) 605
|Aug-09-08|| ||TheCap: 23. bxc5+ Kxc5
I did not see Rac1 as the 24th move.
I thought 24. Qc7 was more powerful (an easier to calculate since it does not leave many options for black and potentially in case white discovers a black escape route a few moves in there could be a permanent check to save the day...)
Anyway, it is hard to say when the puzzle is solved. I guess it is more about discussing the thoughts behind any solutions and sharing ideas in a community of chessfriends. And I must say that there are a lot of people who lay down their thoughts very accurately and I find that extremely useful and it helps me become a better player. So Thanks to for example Dzechiel (to just name someone who is very consistenly presenting his solutions and thoughts) and all the others as well. Thank you.
|Aug-09-08|| ||lost in space: Tried to find out, what move is better after 23. Bxc5+ Kxc5:
24. b4 or 24 Rac1 and came to the conclusion that they are both o.k. In addition I found a defence, not mentioned in my first post.|
24. b4+ Kd6! 25. c5+ Ke6 26. Qa6+ Kf7 27. Qxd3 Nf4 28. Qf5+ Bf6 29. g3 Ng6 with white advantage.
Nearly the same line seems to be the best after
24. Rac1 Kd6! 25. c5+ Ke6 26. Qa6+ Kf7 27. Qxd3 Nf4 28. Qf5+ Bf6 29. g3 Ng6 with white advantage.
Maybe someone can check this lines with a strong silicon monster.
|Aug-09-08|| ||stacase: Got the first move, so [my rule] I get to post (-: But I figured black to run to e6 instead of scarfing up the Bishop. Oh well!|
|Aug-09-08|| ||MiCrooks: I had b4 instead of Rac1 which according to the silicon monster is equally good if not slightly better.|
Interestingly, Smirin missed a similar conception a few moves early when on move 21 c5! was better than the b3 that he he played. Had Boris not made a few misteps (like c5 and even Kxc5) then Smirin would have had a much harder time due to that mistake.
At then end taking the pawn is suicide. Even here Smirin misses the forced mate with Qc7+ instead of Rxc4+, though that is totally excusable. Once you see a continuation that leaves you with that clear a winning position, go ahead an play it and get the game over with. No point in searching for a better move at that point.
|Aug-09-08|| ||Once: Hmmm - an odd one.
The starting position is a tense king hunt. We have already invested a minor piece in the attack, so we need to act quickly. The good news is that the king stuck on d6 has very few moves. So we need aggressive moves to attack. I would really like to get my rooks into the action before too long.
So, like everyone else, I looked at 23. Bxc5+ as my first choice. But I could not quite get it to work. Sure, the line 23. Bxc5+ Kxc5+ 24. b4+ Kd6 25. c5+ looks fun for white, but what if white declines the bishop?
23. Bxc5 Ke6 ... now what? I looked at a number of lines, but black seemed to be wriggling free in each case. Do I really feel brave enough to try 24. Rxe5+?
So I talk myself out of 23. Bxc5+. I am fairly certain that it is the solution, because it feels like a CG kind of move. But I lack the confidence in it to play it in a game. And by my personal rules of engagement, that's a fail.
Look at the solution, and - natch - Bxc5 was played. But black grabbed the bishop and soon lost. 24. Rac1 was a cool move - bringing up the reserves. Wish I'd spotted that.
Plug the position into Fritz 11. Of course, it spots 23. Bxc5+ straight away, but then it gives equal weight to 24. b4+ and 24 Rac1. Both around +1.5 (depending on how long I let the infinite analysis continue for).
And 23. ... Ke6? Fritz initially is not too impressed with white's advantage but over time the evaluation rises to +2.5. Here is a sample line:
23. Bxc5+ Ke6 24. Bxe7 Qf7
Fritz reckons that this or 24. Qc8 is best. One line that had scared me is busted by 24. ... Nxe7? 25. Rxe5+! Kxe5 26. Qxe7+ Kf5 27. Re1 with an evaluation of over +8.
Back to the main line after 24. ... Qf7 Fritz gives a scary line that runs 25. c5 Rf8 26. f4 and white has an advantage of +1.47 in a very messy position.
So, the first move of Bxc5+ is the best and is not that difficult to spot. Black is quickly stuffed if he grabs the bishop, with either 24. b4+ or the cooler 24. Rac1+. But the position is more difficult to evaluate if black dodges the bishop check with 23. ... Ke6. White is still winning, but the lines get complicated, with fewer forcing moves.
|Aug-09-08|| ||456: Friday puzzle Aug-08-08 <20. ?> Geller vs Keres, 1973|
|Aug-09-08|| ||znprdx: bizarre - not very interesting: far too one-sided - however as <once> suggests-declining is fascinating. Ironic parallel to recent Radjabov-Grishuk in Sochi FIDE Grand Slam|
|Aug-09-08|| ||RandomVisitor: 22...Ke6 was better and might hold for black.|
|Aug-09-08|| ||snarky: Like a lot of folks I got the first move but couldn't find the continuation. The idea I was working on was hemming the king in on d4 and I couldn't quite work it out.|
|Aug-09-08|| ||Rama: Today's quote: "These are not pieces, they are men!" In full, the quote points toward geting value for your sacrifice.|
So we look for a worthy sacrifice. 23. Bxc5 ..., opens lines and seems to expose the King to further checks. But here I lost the thread and did not find 24. Rac1! I kept looking for ways to X-ray the Rd3 with Qa6+.
This was a difficult puzzle.
|Aug-09-08|| ||fizixgeek: What about 24. b4+ ?|
|Aug-09-08|| ||zb2cr: Saw the first move, but did not see the very fine follow-up 24. Rac1, threatening
cxd5+. Actually, I think Black should have played 24. ... Kd4 to respond to the threat.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·