< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Dec-22-13|| ||Richard Taylor: Fischer sometimes played this opening in the US Championships with success.|
|Dec-22-13|| ||mistreaver: Sunday. White to play. Insane. 17.?
The position arose from the King's Indian Attack. I think i have already
seen the following motif, which i will try to exploit in the given position:
17 Nxd5! exd5
(not taking the knight leaves black a pawn down and in a bad position.)
Now i think the only reasonable move for black to play would be
expecting 19 exd7 Qxd7 with probably not that bad position.
But i don't know whether here something better should work?
19 exf7+ Kh8
OTB i would go for
19 exd7 Qxd7
20 Ne5 or smth.
Time to check and see.
Hmmm, a bit too intuitive for Sunday, don't you think?
|Dec-22-13|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: 19 ... Kxf7
20 Qe6+ Kf8
21 Ng5 Bxg5
22 Bxd5 Qxd5
leaves White with what should be a winning advantage (material and some initiative), but I suspect there's a flashier win I'm overlooking.
|Dec-22-13|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: Black's best defense may be 19 ... Kf1. I'm not seeing how White can get his queen onto the long diagonal, nor how White wins without doing so.|
|Dec-22-13|| ||mike1: 19...Kf8 20. Ng5 Bxg5 21. Bxg5 Qxg5
|Dec-22-13|| ||PhilFeeley: I got the first 4 moves of this! How can it be described as "insane"?|
|Dec-22-13|| ||PhilFeeley: <mike1: 19...Kf8 20. Ng5 Bxg5 21. Bxg5 Qxg5 22.Qe8+>|
22. Qe8+ Rxe8
23. Rxe8+ Kxf7
|Dec-22-13|| ||Ratt Boy: I do not get Black's 24th.
The light-squared B is covering the essential e8 square. So he allows White to trade it off and he resigns immediately?
It seems to me that, if Black makes no useful moves (I can't see a useful move for him), White simply doubles Rooks on the e-file and wins by playing Qxe7. Is that correct?
Anyhoo, 24...Bc6 looks blunderrific to me.
|Dec-22-13|| ||morfishine: PM: Well, Its either 19...Kf8 or 19...Kh8 as in the game (19...Kxf7 loses on the spot, so credit "Cosmos" for not being totally Lost in Space). |
Lets see if 19...Kf8 is any better than the game continuation:
(1) <19...Kf8> 20.Qe6 c4 21.Qxd5 cxd3 22.cxd3 Rac7 23.d4 Nf6 24.Qg5 Nh5
25.Bxc7 Rxc7 26.Rxe7 Rxe7 27.g4 Nxd4 28.gxh5 Nxf3+ 29.Bxf3 Bc4
30.hxg6 hxg6 31.Qxg6 Bxf7 32.Qg7+ Ke8 33.Bc6+ Rd7 34.Re1+ Qe7
35.Qh8+ Bg8 36.Qxg8#
*While the initial solution wasn't so insane, and Black's defense wasn't so insane (though his set up my be called insane), what appears to be insane about this position is the mind-boggling number of variations, or trees
However, this makes for a lot of PM fun :)
|Dec-22-13|| ||Patriot: 17.Nxd5 seems to be a no-risk move.
17...exd5 18.e6 Nde5 19.Nxe5 Nxe5 20.Bxe5 is one way.
17...exd5 18.e6 Nde5 19.Nxe5 Nxe5 20.exf7+ Kxf7 21.Bxd5+ followed by 22.Qxe5 looks ok.
So 17.Nxd5 seems to be an easy decision.
|Dec-22-13|| ||mike1: PhilFeeley: <mike1: 19...Kf8 20. Ng5 Bxg5 21. Bxg5 Qxg5 22.Qe8+> 22. Qe8+ Rxe8 23. Rxe8+ Kxf7 then what? |
23. fxe8 Q ##
|Dec-22-13|| ||roberts partner: There was a sequel to this famous game in the tournament of Athens 1968, where the Greek government of Army colonels decided that the country needed a grandmaster. They asked Trifunovic to organise an event which would be fixed to enable Greek players to become GMs. Trifunovic explained that GM norms were not possible, but that he could arrange for IM titles.
So some titled foreign players were hired with instructions as a condition of their generous participant fees that they should lose or draw to certain Greek players.
Ciocaltea was one of the mercenaries, but he wanted to show that his losses were not genuine. He hit on the idea of allowing his opponent Visantiadis to repeat Ciocaltea's brilliancy against Kozma, but this time with Ciocaltea playing Black.
The only difference was that Ciocaltea played Kf8 instead of Kozma's Kh8, losing to the sequence which some Chessgames readers found while analysing the puzzle.|
|Dec-22-13|| ||JG27Pyth: @ratboy <Anyhoo, 24...Bc6 looks blunderrific to me> |
I felt the same way initially, but it's not even that easy to find an improvement.I mean... there's probably better than 24...Bc6, but what, exactly? White's attack is both ferocious and bristling with puzzle-like solutions.
24...Rd7 loses immediately (interfering with the black bishop defending e8)... how about 24...Rxd5 -- ? Unless I'm mistaken that loses quickly too, to 25.Qxe7! (...Rxe7? 26.Bxf6#)(...Qxe7 26.Bxf6+! Qxf6 27.Re8+ Bxe8 28.fxe8=R Qf8 29.Rxf8#)(25...Rd6 fails as well after 26.Bxf6)
|Dec-22-13|| ||JG27Pyth: hmmm... 24...Bf8 would have held out a little longer for black I think.|
|Dec-22-13|| ||Patriot: <JG27Pyth> 24...Rxd5 25.Bxf6+ wins on the spot. (25...Bxf6 26.Qe8+).|
24...Bf8 25.Be6! according to Houdini - an interference not easy to see.
|Dec-22-13|| ||agb2002: The material is complete.
The obvious move is 17.Nxd5 exd5 (else 18.Nxe7+ with an extra pawn and the bishop pair) 18.e6:
A) 18... Qd8 19.exf6+
A.1) 19... Kxf7 20.Qe6+
A.1.a) 20... Ke8 21.Ng5 Nf8 (21... Qb6 22.Qf7+ Kd8 23.Ne6#) 22.Qf7+ Kd7 23.Bh3+ Kc7 24.Ne6+ and 25.Nxd8.
A.1.b) 20... Kf8 21.Ng5 Bxg5 (21... Nde5 22.Nxh7+ Ke8 23.Nf6+ Kf8 24.Qg8#; 21... Nce5 22.Rxe5 Nxe5 23.Nxh7+ and mate in two) 22.Bd6+ B(N)e7 23.Bxd5 and mate next.
A.2) 19... Kf8 20.Ng5 Bxg5 21.Bxg5 Nf6 (21... Qb6(c7) 22.Qe8+ and mate next) 22.Bxf6 Qxf6 23.Qe8+ Rxe8 24.fxe8=Q#.
A.3) 19... Kh8 20.Bg5
A.3.a) 20... Bxg5 21.Qe8+ and mate in two.
A.3.b) 20... Nf8(b6,b8) 21.Qxe7 Qxe7 (21... N(R)xe7 22.Bf6#) 22.Rxe7 with the double threat 23.Bf6# and 23.Rxa7.
B) 18... Qb7 19.exf7+ looks similar to A, but Black's back rank is weaker.
C) 18... Nce5 (or 18... Nde5) 19.exf7+ followed by 20.Nxe5 wins a pawn at least.
D) 18... Bd6 19.exf7+
D.1) 19... Kxf7 20.Qe6+ Kf8 21.Bxd6+ wins.
D.2) 19... Kf8 20.Qe8+ Rxe8 21.fxe8=Q#.
D.3) 19... Kh8 20.Qe8+ Nf8 21.Bg5 with the threat 22.Bf6# looks winning.
|Dec-22-13|| ||Cibator: Once again, Black chokes on the old bone-in-the-throat (a White P at h6) coupled with the thrust e6 clearing the way for an inrush of White pieces. For another example see: P N Lee vs I Radulov, 1965.|
|Dec-22-13|| ||vajeer: What is the continuation if Black plays 20...Nf8|
|Dec-22-13|| ||SonOfSteel: <morfishine>: I thought Fischer as White beat Ciocaltea with almost the identical combination, but...|
Here is that thematic Fischer game:
Fischer vs U Geller, 1968
|Dec-22-13|| ||morfishine: <SonOfSteel> Thanks for forwarding this game! Saved me from having to research this win. Interesting too its against his toughest opponent: Geller|
|Dec-22-13|| ||BOSTER: Geller. But not the same.|
|Dec-22-13|| ||RandomVisitor: After 15.h5:
click for larger view
Rybka 4.1 x64:
<[-0.08] d=20 15...h6> 16.Qd2 Qb6 17.Ng4 Rc8 18.Rac1 Bf8 19.Nxh6+ gxh6 20.Bxh6 Bxh6 21.Qxh6 Qd8 22.Qf4 Qe7 23.Nh2 c4 24.Ng4 cxd3 25.cxd3 Qf8 26.d4
|Dec-22-13|| ||RandomVisitor: After 17.Nxd5 black has a number of ways to lose:
click for larger view
Rybka 4.1 x64:
+1.27/17 17...Qb8 18.Nxe7+ Nxe7 19.Ng5 Bb7 20.Ne4 Bxe4 21.Qxe4 a4 22.a3 Nd5 23.Bc1 Qb6
+1.37/17 17...Qd8 18.Nxe7+ Qxe7 19.a3 Nd4 20.Nxd4 cxd4 21.axb4 axb4 22.Qd2 Qc5 23.Ra4 Bb7 24.Rxb4 Bd5 25.Bxd5 Qxd5 26.Qe2 Ra2 27.Rc1 Nc5 28.Bg5 Nd7 29.f4
+1.64/17 17...Qb7 18.Nxe7+ Nxe7 19.Nd2 Qc7 20.Ne4 Nf5 21.c3 Bb7 22.Bg5 Kf8 23.g4 Bxe4 24.Qxe4 Ne7 25.a3 bxc3 26.bxc3 Rb8 27.Bxe7+ Kxe7 28.d4 Rb2 29.d5 exd5 30.Qxd5 Qb6
+3.71/17 17...exd5 18.e6 Qd8 19.exf7+ Kh8 20.Ne5 Nf8 21.Nxc6 Rxc6 22.Qe5+ Rf6 23.Bg5 Rd7 24.d4 c4 25.Qxe7 Qxe7 26.Rxe7 Rxf7 27.Rxf7 Rxf7 28.Bd8 Bb7 29.Bxa5 b3 30.cxb3 cxb3 31.axb3 Ne6 32.Re1 Re7
+3.81/17 17...Bxd3 18.cxd3 Qd8 19.Nxe7+ Qxe7 20.Rac1 Qf8 21.Ng5 Nd4 22.Qd2 a4 23.Ne4 a3 24.b3 Kh8 25.Nd6 Rd8 26.Rc4
|Dec-23-13|| ||JG27Pyth: @Patriot <24...Bf8 25.Be6! according to Houdini - an interference not easy to see.>|
Wow. Speaking of "puzzle-like tactics"
|Dec-23-13|| ||perfidious: <morf>: For a speedy win by Fischer vs his bÍte noire, see this gem: Fischer vs Geller, 1961.|
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