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|Aug-09-06|| ||Benzol: Does 23.♕c3+ win?|
|Aug-09-06|| ||patzer2: In addition to 19...Bf6 =, perhaps 20...Bf6 is not too late to try and equalize. Further, as <Random Visitor> mentions, 22...fxg6 eliminates the threat of 23. Bh6+?? by defending g3 and leaving 23...Kxh6?? Kxh6 a losing option for White. Black seems to have reasonable drawing chances after 22...fxg6 23. f4 Bf6 24. f5 Qe7! 25. Bxc6 bxc6 26. fxg6 Qe4+ 27. Ka1 hxg6 28. Bc1 (not 28. Bxa7?? Rd2! ).|
|Aug-09-06|| ||Marco65: <patzer2> 23...Kf6 24.Qf3+ Ke5 25.Bg7+! f6 [25...Ke6 26.Qb3+ Kd6 27.Rd1+ ] 26.Rg5+ Ke6 27.Qb3+ Kd6 28.Rd5+ |
is that what you saw?
|Aug-09-06|| ||dakgootje: Many candidate moves to consider making it a relative hard puzzle for wednesday. It seems at first sight like a typical position to sac a piece, forcing a way to the opponents king and a followed mate. Problem only is that all whites pieces can be sacced immediately which makes it needed that several moves get calculated.|
Materialaddicts, as i think most of us are here, probably first look at the seemingly most forcing moves (ie Qxf7, Rxg6 or Bxg6) leaving the better, slightly more 'silent' sac, Bh6 to the last candidate move to consider.
then you can immediately see blacks fortress cant be defended well enough so blacks king cant go to g8, h7 and h8. Only possibilities are Kf6 and Kxh6 both calculated earlier on by other people.
|Aug-09-06|| ||dakgootje: <Does 23.Qc3+ win?> Think black can hold with Nd4|
|Aug-09-06|| ||patzer2: <Benzol> Your 23. Qc3+ appears to win after 23...Bf6?? 24. Bh6+! Kxh6 25. Qxf6 Rg8 26. Qg5+ Kg7 27. Bxg6 Kf8 28. Qh6+ Ke8 29. Re1+ Kd8 30. Be4! .|
However following 23. Qc3+ Kh8 or 23. Qc3+ Nd4 Black can put up more resistance. So, the stronger and clearer winning move is 23. Bh6+! as played in the game.
|Aug-09-06|| ||patzer2: In trying to more quickly visualize the 23. Bh6+ solution, perhaps solving the mate-in-two possibility after 23. Bh6+ Kxh6 24. Qxf7 Qd6 (diagram below) would help:|
click for larger view
[Find White's (25?) mate-in-two after 23. Bh6+ Kxh6 24. Qxf7 Qd6.]
Note that essentially the same mate-in-two pattern occurs after 24...Ne5 or 24...Rg8.
|Aug-09-06|| ||Peligroso Patzer: In the starting position, I couldn't stop myself from yearning for the White Rook to be on an open h-file (with the idea 23. Rh7+ and 24. Qxf7+). This fantasy was not possible, of course, but it could have pointed me to an alternative method to decoy the Black King away from the defense of f7. Unfortunately, my less-than-Smyslovian (to put it mildly) intuition dismissed the decoy of the Black King with 23. Bh6+ as too slow (since then 24. Qxf7 does not come with check). At this point, I said to myself something like, "I guess I just don't see this one," and I checked the game score. If I had not been so lazy and had just taken a look, I would have noticed that although there is no check at move 24, the Bishop sac line (23. Bh6+ Kxh6 24. Qxf7) creates massive threats focused on the new Black weakness at g6. From the position arising after 24. Qxf7, even Black's clever defensive Queen sacrifice (24. ... Qd1+) was only availing to prolong his agony.|
It is said that we learn and improve most in chess by studying our lost games and our mistakes, but no one has nearly enough time to make them all. I hope that the above sharing of the flaws in my thought process that caused me to fail to solve this one will be instructive to others.
|Aug-09-06|| ||Richerby: Yikes. Too difficult for a Wednesday, surely? I'd convinced myself that, after 23.♗h6+, anything but 23... ♔xh6 would lose but I didn't consider 24... ♕d1+.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||greensfield: Got the first bit fairly quickly 23.Bh6+ Kxh6 24.Qxf7 after first looking at and rejecting the other obvious forcing moves. Took me a while to get 27. f4 and establish the net to trap the King|
|Aug-09-06|| ||JustAFish: <probably first look at the seemingly most forcing moves (ie Qxf7, Rxg6 or Bxg6) leaving the better, slightly more 'silent' sac, Bh6 to the last candidate move to consider.>|
dakgootje, this was the exact series of candidate moves in the exact order that I considered. It took me a few minutes to see Bh6 as an interesting move, however. Once spotted, the calculation proceeded rapidly.
|Aug-09-06|| ||YouRang: Curses -- I missed it! Failure to notice that f7 was vulnerable. :-(|
The f7 (or f2) pawns often seem to be soft spots in puzzles.
|Aug-09-06|| ||kevin86: Black's king can step one forward or one back-but it wil be his last at 30 ♕h8# is the end|
I looked for something more complicated-without noticing the real power of 24 ♕xf7
|Aug-09-06|| ||Honza Cervenka: I found the idea 23.Bh6+ Kxh6 24.Qxf7 with triple attack on g6 quickly. As 23...Kg8 is evidently bad for 24.Rxg6+ I have thought that black will continue desperately 23...Kf6. Being a little bit lazy I did not calculate it beyond this point as it was evidently good for white...:-)|
|Aug-09-06|| ||TheBB: I should have got this. I should have got this. I should have got this. Aaargh.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||T Ciddasselepoh: This wasn't very hard. At first I considered Bxg6 but after that didn't work, Bh6 was obvious from there.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||Halldor: The text was actually the only move I found... (since an immediate rook or bishop sac at g6 didn't work). The position calls for a kingside attack anyway - so it wasn't difficult to find this deflection move. It shows that the king is the worst defender because it's so vulnerable. Got this quickly but then I used most of the time on lines where black rejects the bishop sacrifice, only checked the queen sac briefly and didn't think it would be dangerous, still I should have given it a closer look. But anyway, I will give myself a point for this - if there are no objections. :-))|
|Aug-09-06|| ||dakgootje: <JustAFish> yups had the same thing, and i just KNEW there were a load others going first through those candidates before solving/giving up/guessing wrong, which is why ive written that part ;-)|
|Aug-09-06|| ||Benzol: <dakgootje> <patzer2> Thanks guys. 23...♘d4 kills White's attacking chances so it looks like 23.♗h6+ is the best way.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||gawain: I saw the deflection Bh6 to allow the Q invasion by Qxf7 and I guessed that was the solution--but I was just too darned lazy to figure out what the follow-up moves would have to be.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||aazqua: This is absurdly easy. The bishop sac is painfully obvious (it is a puzzle after all and there are no other possibilities) which gives hte pawn to the queen and sets up a triple attack and no counterplay for black. Even without the final mate it's an easy win for white.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||patzer2: <Marco65> <Is that what you saw?> What you gave after 23...Kf6 is close to what I had, and where it differs is probably better than what I saw. Looks like you've found perhaps the strongest winning line. |
Of course there are lots of ways to win it after 23...Kf6 24. Qf3+, and one almost has to work hard to find a series of reasonable moves that aren't decisive.
|Aug-10-06|| ||Marco65: <one almost has to work hard to find a series of reasonable moves that aren't decisive> Lucky you if you can think that. I can never trust myself in my judgement of the opponent king's safety, too many times otb I sacrificed by intuition and my opponent found a subtle way to escape!|
When one can't rely on his intuition, has to work hard to try to prove everything. That's why I try to improve my analysis skill, and insist in finding a forcing line in positions that most kibitzers here can quickly archive as an easy win.
|Aug-10-06|| ||patzer2: <Marco65> I agree it's important to find and calculate precise winning lines in most situations. However, in a position with even material and my pieces coordinated and my King secure, while my opponent's King is exposed to attack and his pieces are uncoordinated, I don't need to think long at all before going in for such a line.|
Also, my point was not that the line here doesn't need to be calculated, but rather that there a lot of different winning lines available (all of which work). After I calculate one that wins comfortably, I find it usually isn't necessary (especially OTB when time is a factor) to look for more.
|Mar-11-09|| ||WhiteRook48: I don't get it|
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