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Peter K Wells vs Alexey Shirov
Gibtelecom Chess Festival (2006), Gibraltar, rd 6, Jan-29
Trompowsky Attack: General (A45)  ·  1-0



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Given 65 times; par: 17 [what's this?]

Annotations by Stockfish (Computer).      [22082 more games annotated by Stockfish]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-15-11  SimonWebbsTiger: i find fault in the loop, DrMal.

No one is allowed to comment on AJ's analysis if he doesn't like them.

btw, you forgot "nyuk, nyuk, nyuk" in the loop. "Nyuk" is the FF favourite put down.

Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: When <perfidious> told his real name, <AJ> said, "<perfidious> is someone trying to pretend to be the real Alan Shaw."

Yes, you must send <AJ> an e-mail (why he imagines anyone would want to give him their e-mail address is beyond me), or a copy of your driver's license. He must never have heard of ID theft.

<AJ> is a crappy master with a ratings floor that guarantees that his master's title will never go away, for without that floor, he would be a Class 1, maybe.

Nov-15-11  LIFE Master AJ: I have just sent an e-mail to Chess Games and ask that they clean this page up (remove ALL off-topic comments!!!!!) ... I am through bantering with trolls.
Nov-15-11  King Death: Here's a laugh from another page.

< LIFE Master AJ: P Wells vs Shirov, 2006.

Be nice if all of the "off-topic" stupidity could be removed, especially the blatant attacks & stalker junk. BTW, feel free to remove any of my comments as well.>

The last sentence is really a hoot. His comments are pointless if left to stand on their own, and it's mighty nice of him to tell the website how to manage their business. Kinda like Joe Paterno telling Penn State that they shouldn't waste time worrying about him, because he'd go when he was good and ready.

Nov-15-11  Nemesistic: <LifeMasterAJ> certainly seems to use this site to highlight his own web pages and YouTube video's,the rest of his time is spent upsetting or arguing with others.
Nov-15-11  Nemesistic: If you guys really want something to laugh about you must check out LifeMaster AJ's own annotations on his game with someone called Rick Aeria on this site! He gives one move (An untaken Knight sac!) 3/4 Exclams ?? (You decide!) and claims the man next to him "Partially" fell from his chair! Iv played sounder sacs in 3 min Blitz,but for comedic value its a MUST READ
Nov-15-11  DrMAL: <Nemesistic> Is this 21.Nf5+ (instead of 21.0-0-0) in A J Goldsby vs R Aeria, 2000 that (also) leads to draw?

Sheer genius, maddeningly complex, I can only admire in awe.

Nov-15-11  Nemesistic: <DrMAL> Yes thats the move LOL
Nov-15-11  DrMAL: Before great gift of unparalled genius:

Houdini_20_x64: 6/18 00:00 1,835
0.00 21.0-0-0 Qc7 22.Nf5+ gxf5 23.Qg5+ Kh7 24.Qxf5+ Kg7 0.00 21.Nf5+ Kg8 22.Qh6 Ne6 23.Rh3 Qd7 24.Rg3 Rxc2

After climbing back on chair:

Houdini_20_x64: 6/19 00:00 1,208
0.00 21. ... Kg8 22.Qh6 Ne6 23.Rh3 Qd7 24.Rc1 Rfe8
0.00 21. ... gxf5 22.Qg5+ Kh8 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Qg5+ Kh8

Nov-15-11  Nemesistic: Also claiming humans can't see that move (21.Nf5+ !!!!) and the Comparison with Tal ! Hilarious
Nov-17-11  mworld: seeing that a recent game played like this by players of that caliber is refreshing.
Nov-17-11  DrMAL: <mworld> Everyone (with very few exceptions) makes mistakes, it is much less usual at top level but either way I don't particularly revel in this fact of life. Personally, I would have preferred if Shirov had not mixed up move order so we could see interesting middlegame from this opening, it is quite a new and unusual opening and there are not many examples of what happens with it. One can always play with computer, but that is neither conclusive nor interesting. It is human creativity that makes high level chess so fascinating to me, cheers.
Nov-18-11  LIFE Master AJ: I think someone said that Wells no longer plays this line ...

P Wells vs Y Zhou, 2011,

... obviously, that was an error.

Nov-18-11  LIFE Master AJ:

Shirov,Alexei (2732) - Orosa Martinez,Victor (2054) [A45] Villarrobledo op 24th (1) / 25,07,2009.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c5 3.Bxf6 gxf6 4.d5 Qb6 5.Qc1 f5 6.g3 Bg7 7.c3 d6 8.Nf3 Nd7 9.Bg2 Nf6 10.Nh4 Bd7 11.0-0 e6 12.Nd2 Qc7 13.Qc2 0-0 14.Rad1 Rad8 15.Rfe1 b5 16.e4 fxe4 17.Nxe4 Nxd5 18.Rxd5 exd5 19.Ng5 f5 20.Bxd5+ Kh8 21.Qe2 Rde8 22.Qh5 1-0

(I will submit this and also post the PGN in my forum.)

Nov-18-11  mworld: <DrMAL: <mworld> Everyone (with very few exceptions) makes mistakes, it is much less usual at top level but either way I don't particularly revel in this fact of life.>


Nov-18-11  King Death: <DrMAL> Do you think he even noticed that 6...Bg7 was played by Shirov's opponent? Of course, the <LM> is always right about everything! In just a little while here, that's pretty obvious.
Nov-18-11  DrMAL: <King Death> BTW in Dembo book which I decided to get, it states (p.28) "6...Bh6! The tactical point behind this critical move will become clear in a moment." For <Life MORON AJ> this may be moment of eternity! LOL. Thanx <SWT> for pointing out book it also has excellent suggestions elsewhere, cheers.
Nov-18-11  LIFE Master AJ: To repeat the obvious ... since some people obviously cannot grasp plain English ... ... ...

ANY CHESS ENGINE ... pick one ... will choose the vastly superior and certainly more logical move of 6...Bg7!; over the comparitively weaker 6...Bh6.

You are welcome to fire up your own chess engine and try this yourself ... also, any amount of DPA's, sliding, etc, will also verify that 6...Bg7! is absolutely the best move. It also avoids all of the difficulties that Black gets himself into in this game ... problems - that even a GM of Shirov's caliber - could not overcome.

QED / END OF LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nov-18-11  SimonWebbsTiger: A completely useless and pathetic comment from AJ, as per usual.

The whole point is 6...Bg7 is the more respected main line in this branch of the Tromp. It was because of games like Hodgson-v.d.Wiel 1994 and this one that 6...Bh6 had been ignored.

That was until Yelena Dembo, a Greek ELO 2450+ women GM and male IM player - vastly stronger in playing strength, international experience and written work than AJ; ie. a proper Master, unlike that Florida patzer - had published an interesting book on Anti-King's Indian openings repertoire book for black in 2009. (There is an earlier book covering the same topic, but suggesting some different lines, by Joe Gallagher, so both books provide the KID player with anything he would want versus the anti-KIDS.)

6...Bh6!? is worthy of more testing. Will it be refuted? Quite possibly. That is how opening theory develops.

GM Richard Palliser - someone else who is a real Master and vastly stronger than AJ - commented that the line is interesting and worthy of tests.

I bet the IM and GM are so unprofessional that they don't own engines or know how to use them. ;o)

AJ should play with his toys and leave the grown ups to talk chess.

Nov-18-11  Nemesistic: I dont see much wrong with 6..Bh6 personally but im a mere patzer! Maybe g7 is better,but i sure as hell don't need to let my Computer work it out for me,then argue with all who disagree <lifemasterbj>
Nov-18-11  SimonWebbsTiger: @<Nemesistic>

the logic of 6...Bh6 and after is this:

Black wishes to prove b2 a weakness. White can sac the exchange, though, and trap the black queen on a1, because trying to run home runs into the extremely strong point 12. d6! Black is forced to play 11...d6 to survive; 12. Qd2 from white next. The question becomes one of whether white ends up materially or positionally ahead. It isn't clear -- things get very tactical.

If it turns out black is plain better, then white's 6. c4 must be dropped for the older 6. g3.

AJ has no clue about the intricacies of this.

Nov-18-11  King Death: While I don't have a chess engine, in reading some remarks <DrMAL> has made, those engines don't seem to do as well in early opening positions with large "trees", as Kotov called them.

Is it possible that <AJ> has put his findings here without thinking, just aping what his wonderful engine tells him? If that's the way it goes, I have a hard time imagining him playing a game where it's just him and the other guy, no engines allowed.

Nov-19-11  King Death: < Annie K.: <> FWIW, I also agree with <twinlark>, <Ohio>, etc. - the Bandar-log, uh, I mean the obsessive anti-AJ troop, needs to be dealt with, and not just followed around and retroactively cleaned up after. A nice two-week vacation upon continued acts of vandalism sounds about right - that way they could be back in time for most of the Clue Hunt... ;)>

This post ignores some realities that are obvious to me in just my short time here. You (and others) seem to have this opinion that <AJ> is a misunderstood creature who never says or does anything wrong and that "The Troop" follows him everywhere and will attack him at the drop of a hat. I won't say that the behavior of "The Troop" is perfect, but don't be in too much of a hurry to be an enabler as AJ plays his victim card. If you refer to actions of "The Troop" as vandalism, what would you call AJ's repeated abuse of others over the smallest hint of any suggestion that he's less than perfect? I've read some of the stuff he's put out there over the years and it's pretty ugly. If he ever said anything like that to me face to face, I'd put him in his place, and fast. I don't think he would though. He seems like a perfect bully but only when everything is his way.

Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: It is silly to just say "the engines don't like that move, therefore it's weak - Q.E.D." (to paraphrase A.J.'s remarks). Don't believe me? Just look at A.J.'s comments at to his 21st move in A J Goldsby vs R Aeria, 2000:

<21.Nf5+!!, (Maybe - '!!!/!!!!') ...

This is easily one of the most profound moves I have ever played. It is also one of the most surprising.

As a test, I offered this position to several strong computer programs. I set each to search 3 nodes, set the hash tables to 25 MB, and then let them crank. At least five of them did not list this move in their top three move choices after exactly seven minutes of analysis. (Seven minutes being the limit set by expert programmers for the average program, running on a Pentium III, to find even the most astounding and amazing moves from known brilliancies.)

This was true right after the game ... it may NOT be true as the over-all technology of computers and the associated chess programs continually advance!> (parentheses around last sentence omitted)

I realize that, as AJ says, chess engines are even stronger today than they were in 2000, but they were plenty strong then. Deep Blue won its match against reigning World Champion Kasparov in 1997.

So if it's possible for a move that A.J. played to be better than that recommended by the engines, it's also possible that a move that various GMs and IMs have played is better than that recommended by the engines. It may or may not be, but just turning off your brain because of what the computer says is a bad idea.

Nov-19-11  acirce: The really wonderfully ironic thing is that AJ himself repeatedly makes this (trivial) point, that computers do not necessarily present you with the absolute truth, in his own notes to.... <this game>!

You couldn't make it up.

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