< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jan-07-10|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Once> I try not to associate with forkees, pinees, or skewerees. :>)|
|Jan-07-10|| ||patzer2: <Once> Great post! <CHESSTTCAMPS> < I try not to associate with forkees, pinees, or skewerees. :>) Thanks for the humor! I got a good laught out of it. However, as <Once> suggests, and I hope, my board sight might improve if I got to know them better (i.e. tactics) and allowed them to get together more often.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||patzer2: Perhaps the recommended improvement 19...Ra4 might have been better than 19...a4?! (giving up the exchange and more without sufficient compensation).|
One possibility is 19... Ra4 20. Nxa5 d5 21. e5 Bd7 22. Nxc6 Qxc6 23. Rxa4 Nxa4 24. b3 Nc5 25. Nd4 Qb6 26. Be3 a5 27. c4 dxc4 28. bxc4 Qb4 29. Qa2 Rb8 when Black appears to have reasonable chances of holding the draw.
|Jan-07-10|| ||Utopian2020: I the right moves, but in the wrong order. I had Nd3 then b4.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||chrisowen: The knight on the rim is dim. After Na5, b4 is a mire where black gets sucked in. The bog standard play should be Nxd4. Na5 flushes away any material equality hope. b4 axb3 nd3 qxc3?!..qc7 does captain the ship somewhat more yet offers black little counterplay. Like a klutz he must have been mad not spotting it. White will press him and there's nowt he might do about it.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||JG27Pyth: hecky-poo... I missed that Black was already down the exchange *sigh* and noticing it would have changed my view of things (plus one should notice such things, just on principle, shouldn't one?). |
This looked like a trap-the-queen puzzle but really it's more of a remove the defender puzzle IMO. I found b4 fairly quickly. I thought axb3 was inadequate and lost a piece (the Queen trap was obvious IMO) ... but an immediate 24...Qxc3 looked much more promising for black and made me doubt my solution. 24...Qxc3 exchanges rook for two N's. I thought this left Black bloodied but as yet unbeaten -- however, starting from down the exchange, he'd emerge a full piece down without compensation.
Has the 24.b4 Qxc3 line been kibitzed already?
In that line does White have better than:
24.b4 Qxc3 25.bxa5 Qxa1 26.axb6
|Jan-07-10|| ||JG27Pyth: Answering my own question: <Has the 24.b4 Qxc3 line been kibitzed already?|
In that line does White have better than:
24.b4 Qxc3 25.bxa5 Qxa1 26.axb6>
ahh I see it in JohnLSpouge's notes: 24...Na2 and now Black's N is plain lost. Ok.
|Jan-07-10|| ||Summerfruit: Black has a pawn for the exchange.
24.b4! axb3 25.Nd3
a1) 25...Qxc3 26.Rac1 and the queen is trapped.
a2) 25...Qc7 26.Rxa5 winning material.
|Jan-07-10|| ||Kasputin: White is up the exchange with black having an extra pawn.|
Looked at this for awhile and I kept coming back to the awkward placement of black knights and queen. Originally I thought about somehow getting the black queen off the a7-g1 diagonal and then moving the d4 knight in order to create a threat against black's b6 knight and something else.
That wasn't getting me too far and then of course I looked at 24. b4 forking knight and queen.
24...axb3 e.p. (really no alternative)
Now the queen is attacked. Moving to c7 or c4 allows white to capture the a5 knight with the rook but if white plays:
This traps the queen. Probably black will take the rook or maybe push the passed b-pawn now or next move. In any case I don't think black has anything with the passer - white just has to be careful that is all. White already had a slight material advantage (equivalent to being a pawn up) and now white wins the queen in exchange for a rook and two pawns. Plus the black b-pawn should fall into white's hands over the next few moves, especially since black's bishops are very passively placed.
|Jan-07-10|| ||GreenFacedPatzer: Spent a while considering b4, which looked promising, but for the life of me couldn't see a line which didn't wind up losing material (for no clear gain). I did look for a queen trap but didn't spot one. Eventually decided that in a real game I'd've played 24 Nd3, with nothing beyond a vauge idea of developing the knight while driving off the opponents queen and connecting my rooks. 0% credit for today.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||doubledrooks: I saw 24. b4 axb3 25. Nd3 Qxc3, then unnecessariy went in for a line that wins a piece but allows for complications: 26. Ne2 Qc2 27. Qxb6 Nc4. Of course, 26. Rc1 simply wins the queen.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||YouRang: Within only a few seconds, I knew that the move I would make in this situation would be 25.Nd3!|
Unsurprisingly, it would not have been the best move, but at least it feels good to kick the other guy's queen, right?
|Jan-07-10|| ||cyclon: 24.b4 axb3 e.p. ( -Qxc3 25.Na2 wins a piece) 25.Nd3 Qc7 ( -Qxc3 26.Rac1 wins a Queen) 26.Rxa5 and if f.e. -Qxc3 ( -Nd5 27.Nxb3 does it), then 27.Raa1 a5 28.Qb2, cufflinks.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||zanshin: <YouRang: Within only a few seconds, I knew that the move I would make in this situation would be 25.Nd3!
Unsurprisingly, it would not have been the best move, but at least it feels good to kick the other guy's queen, right?>|
Exactly how I felt - I did not like the en passant reply to b4 at all.
|Jan-07-10|| ||OhioChessFan: Fritz faults 23...Na4 greatly. Evals go from about -1.2 to -2.6.|
I need to force myself to keep trying. Figuring I needed to trap the Queen, I saw Nd3 and couldn't find a followup and gave up after maybe 2 minutes without considering a different move.
|Jan-07-10|| ||cyclon: Whereas for me 25.Nd3 was most difficult move to find. At first it didn't occur to me at all. I kind of `felt` -after penetrating into a puzzle-position- that it had to begin with 24.b4, but in that phase I didn`t connected it with 25.Nd3. Why? Because paradoxically AFTER finding 25.Nd3 I realized that deeper meaning of 24.b4 was to open a-file [though I saw it happening "automatically" as a consequence], pawn-fork is a `surface`-meaning. Subjectively thinking (that`s all) it implies indirectly, that there is a slight difference in [degree] between `seeing` something (unusual?) and it`s deeper realizing.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||OhioChessFan: <cyclon: Subjectively thinking (that`s all) it implies indirectly, that there is a slight difference in [degree] between `seeing` something (unusual?) and it`s deeper realizing.>|
I think what you see at first is your intuition. The deeper realizing is calculation. I am far better at the first than the second.
|Jan-07-10|| ||cyclon: <OhioChessFan:I think what you see at first is your intuition. The deeper realizing is calculation.> MOST likely we are exchanging thoughts about the same things, just by different terms and perhaps from slightly different approaching-angles. BUT, (better not to believe me now [slightly laughs]) there might be something else..,you never know.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||David2009: Thursday's puzzle C Lutz vs J Balcerak, 2000 White 24?|
White is up the exchange for a Pawn. 24 b4 is very tempting intending
24 ...axb3 e.p. 25 Rxa5 Qxa5. Unfortunately this fails to win, since 26 Ndxb3 Qb5 27 Be2 Nc4 fails to win a piece, and
26 Ncxb3 Qxc3 27 Rc1 Qd3 fails to trap the Queen, e.g. 28 Be2 Qxe4. Best seems the modest 24 Qd1
unpinning the Nd4 and preparing b4. Time to check (have I missed something and is b4 playable after
It was, and I missed 25 Nd3! instead of 25 Rxa5?. Ah well.
|Jan-07-10|| ||AuN1: got it *yawn*|
|Jan-07-10|| ||WhiteRook48: had 24 Nd3|
|Jan-07-10|| ||muralman: Saw the queen trap. I was surprised by the last black move. The only safe square available is C8. That pulls the puzzle beyond a Thursday puzzle. It seems to me pushing the e pawn may be good.|
|Jan-07-10|| ||Eduardo Leon: I solved this at work, but couldn't post the solution because... uh, never mind.|
White is slightly ahead in material (♖ vs ♗+♙), but his pieces look somewhat uncoordinated. (The black pieces aren't particularly well coordinated either.) In particular, the usual plans in the Sicilian (yes, this *must* be a Sicilian) don't work: 24.e5 doesn't achieve anything, 24.g4 just worsens the white ♔'s position without threatening anything serious against black's immediate security.
But here a tactical blow immediately changes the evaluation of the position.
Forced, because of the fork.
Must guard the ♘a5, duh!
Trapped queen. Oops.
|Jan-07-10|| ||A Karpov Fan: missed|
|Jan-08-10|| ||turbo231: Jakob made a very bad move with his Queen. I wish the guys I play against made moves like that.|
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