< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Aug-04-11|| ||Marmot PFL: Being a puzzle the obvious move to consider is 22 Bxh7+ (which was also an earlier solution this week if I recall correctly) Kxh7 23 Rxf7 Rxf7 24 Rxf7 (for the bishop white has 2 pawns, mate on g7 is threatened and Ne5, Be7 and pg7 are pinned) Rg8 25 Qh3+ Kg6 26 Qf5+ Kh6 27 Be3+ g5 l28 Rh7 mate. This is a fairly simple variation but even in more complicated lines this sacrifice can often be played on intuition. White gets a strong attack for a minimal amount of material and black's pieces can hardly move.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||gofer: I think this is easier than yesterday. White exploits the pinned knight to open up black's defenses.
The knight cannot move as Qxg7# is threatened, so the queen and DSB stay where they are and let the
two rooks and LSB exploit the weakness of Pf7 which is defended twice and attacked twice, but Bxh7+
removes one of those two defenders! As Qc7 is undefended a rook on f7 weakens Pg7 as Bf8 and Bf6 are
not available... ...all in all rather a nice position!|
<22 Bxh7+ ...>
22 ... Kh8 is worse than accepting the sacrifice as it doesn't allow Rg8 as a defense...
<22 ... Kxh7+>
<23 Rxf7 Rg8>
<24 Qh3+ Kg6>
<25 Qf5+ Kh6>
<26 Be3+ g5>
Time to check...
|Aug-04-11|| ||belgradegambit: A very easy Thursday since Bxh7+ is the first move most would look at and the rest follows.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||doubledrooks: I found the same line as <tacticalmonster>, first playing Bxe5 and then Bxh7+.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||kevin86: The same key as yesterday,but with a different type of finish.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||abuzic: <Patriot: 22.Bxh7+ Kxh7
Here I saw only two candidates (thanks to the mate threat): ...Rxf7, ...Rg8.>
<23...Rxf7 seems like the best try because it at least eliminates one of the attackers. Unfortunately the attack is "re-loaded".>
<24.Rxf7 Rg8 (forced)>
Here 24...Rg8 is not forced the other candidate is 24...Bg5! which eliminates all threats, although white is better after 25.Qh3+ Kg8 26.Rxf8 Rxf8 27.Qe6+ Kh7 28.Rxf8 Qxc2.
After the allegedly forced 24...Rg8 you suggested
<25.Qh3+ Kg6 26.Qf5+> which forces mate: 26...Kh6 27.g4 Bg5 28.Rf3 Qxf7 29.Rh3+ Bh4 30.Rxh4+ Qh5 31.g5#; (26.R7f5 also mates: 26...Rh8 27.Qg4+ Bg5 28.Rxg5+ Kh7 29.Qh5+ Kg3 30.Qxd8+ Kh7 31.Rh5#);
Even faster would be (instead of 25.Qh3+) 25.R1f5! mates faster: 25.R1f5 Qd6 26.Rh5+ Qh6 27.Qd3+ e4 28.Qxe4+ Kh8 29.Rxh6+ gxh6 30.Rh7 or Qh7#
Just to complete the picture
|Aug-04-11|| ||patzer2: <The Bish> In my attempt to solve the puzzle, after 22. Bxh7! Kxh7 23. Rxf7 Rxf7 24. Rxf7, I thought for a second that 24...Ng6 held and failed to visualize <Or 24...Ng6 25. Rxg7+ Kh8 26. Rxg6+ and mate is near, or Black can give up his queen with 24...Bf6.>.|
So I gave up too soon, and switched to the more complicated line described in my previous post here.
P.S.: Hopefully, my lesson learned is to make sure to visualize the position clearly before giving up on a promising variation.
|Aug-04-11|| ||BOSTER: Because GOTD has label "Greek Gift" and I trust <CG> it is easy to find 22.Bxh7 Kxh7.
But then puzzle is only beginning.
I tried 23.Qxg7 Kxg7 using the pin of the knight on e5,but did not find the solution.
And after long thought I saw that pawn f7 has not enough protection. It is called the break in "the most defended place".
So 23.Rxf7 Rxf7 24.Rxf7 Rg8 25.Qh3+ Kg6 26. Qf5# if 25...Bf6 26.Rxc7.
|Aug-04-11|| ||Rook e2: I had Rxf7 and after Rxf7 Bxh7+ but it fails..|
|Aug-04-11|| ||Patriot: <abuzic> Thanks for the response! 24...Bg5 stops immediate mate, and loses instantly to 25.Rxc7. But you are right to say 24...Rg8 isn't the only way to stop immediate mate. There are many ways to stop mate in one: ...Rg8, ...Bg5, ...Ng4, ...Ng6, ...Bf8, ...Bf6 and ...Kh6. Quite a few! Moves like those can ruin a solution where the puzzle says "Mate in x moves" since that extra tempo can cause it to be "x+1" moves. Generally though, "forced" can loosely mean "the only reasonable try", otherwise lose the queen, get mated, etc. In cases where a piece is given back with equality, compensation, or a counter-attack, then it is probably necessary to calculate it.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||Creg: Ugh, I've been spending forever on this.
I've been concentrating on g7 and h7, what about f7?
22.Bxe5 dxe5 23.Bxh7+ Kxh7 24.Rxf7. I wonder if this is it?! We threaten Qxg7mate, can it be stopped?
if 24...Bf6 then Rxc7
24...Rxf7 doesn't change things after 25.Rxf7, and not taking the bishop on move 23 only invites more trouble. I'm going with this line.
Oh, Bxh7+ first, I thought I had to remove the knight on e5 to hit f7, but forgot the knight was pinned due to mate threats on g7.
|Aug-04-11|| ||gofer: <Patriot> <"23 ... Bg5 loses immediately to 24 Qxc7?> Perhaps you are missing that black replies
with 24 ... Rxf1+ 25 Bg1 (forced) Bh3 allowing black to create multiple mating threats. Also if white plays it slightly differently 23 Qh3+ Kg8
24 Rxc7 Rxf1+ 25 Bg1 Nf7 and black now threatens to double hist rooks on
the first rank. So "no" an immediate loss is not there for black!! |
However <abuzic> Bg5 does have other issues and it goes a R v B exchanged down immediately!
<22 Bxh7+ Kxh7>
<23 Rxf7 Bg5?>
Why play Qh3+ and give a way a perfectly good exchange!?
<24 Rxf8 Rxf8>
<25 Rxf8 ...>
Okay its not a quick win but its a clear advantage...
|Aug-04-11|| ||David2009: J B Bednarski vs J Adamski, 1978 White 22?|
Level material but White has pressure. Try 22.Rg4 seeing 22...Nxg4 23.Qxg4 f6 24.Qh5 g6 25. Bxg6 hxg6 26.Qxg6+ Kh8 27.Rf3 Qd7 28.Qh6+ Kg8 29.Rg3+
and mates. But Black does not have to play Nxg4 and g6 looks very solid. An alternative is 22.Rf5 threatening to win a Pawn by exchanging on e5,
but 22.Ng6 looks very solid. Finally, White can invest a Rook unsoundly starting 22.Bxh7+ Kxh7 23.Rh4+ Bxh4 24.Qxh4+ Kg1 and White has nothing.
Finally White can try 22.Rf6, but 22...Nxd3 defends adequately since 23.Qxg7+? loses to Kxg7 24.Rxf7+ Kg6! or Kh6 and White is busted.
Conclusion: I will go for 22.Rf5, passing uo 22.Rg4 because of 22...g6. Time to
click for larger view
22.Bxh7+ Kxh7 23.Rxf7! Now why didn't I think of that?
Interactive link to play the position out in Crafty End Game Trainer:
The EGT finds an ingenious defence which should not change the inevitable. Against me, however, it did - I am sure you will all do better. Enjoy finding the clear win!
|Aug-04-11|| ||chaosart74: Everybody says 22. Bxh7. I am an amateur player. Can anyone tell me why 22. Rxf7 is no good? It looks to me like the most deadly move: if black would do 22. ... Rxf7, same threat on Qxg7, and if black would do 22. ...Nxf7, also the threat on Qxg7, but with the bishop covering g7 instead of the rook... only thing i see to prevent this is for black to put his bishop at f6, but then the white rook takes the black queen...|
|Aug-04-11|| ||chaosart74: Ok, i already see, it probably will be followed by g7g6, right?|
|Aug-04-11|| ||morfishine: <Patriot> Good job today!|
<sevenseaman> Glad you found it. I was driving into work thinking 26.Qf5+ mates, then realized black plays 26...Kh6, but alas, 27.Be3+ finishes him off
<scormus> Holiday for 2-weeks means no internet and no posts? Where are you going? Easter Island?
|Aug-04-11|| ||Patriot: <gofer> <<Patriot> <"23 ... Bg5 loses immediately to 24 Qxc7?> Perhaps you are missing that black replies with 24 ... Rxf1+ 25 Bg1 (forced) Bh3 allowing black to create multiple mating threats.>|
Not in the line <abuzic> and I were referring to: 22.Bxh7+ Kxh7 23.Rxf7 Rxf7 24.Rxf7 Bg5 25.Rxc7. You're absolutely right on move 23 (23...Bg5 24.Rxc7 Rxf1+) but that wasn't the question. Thanks!
|Aug-04-11|| ||Patriot: Thanks <morfishine>, congrats to you as well! That was an interesting comparison with Golf...and very true.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||tacticalmonster: The keys to POTD are:
1) pressure on g7 by Q and B combination. e5 knight is pinned
2) White has doubled rook and pressures on the f-file. White has a sort of rook lift along the fourth rank.
3) Lack of defending pieces around black's kingside. h7 pawn is only defended by the black king and white d3 bishop is pointing in that direction.
4) Lack of mobility in Black's camp. The f8 rook can't move, c7 queen lacks a useful role, e5 knight can only move back to g6 and the bad e7 bishop is hampered in by the d6 pawn. This inflexibility offer very little defense to its' king
|Aug-04-11|| ||rapidcitychess: What a coincidence that the GOTD would be called "Greek Gift" and the puzzle would be a Greek Gift.|
|Aug-04-11|| ||estrick: I found the game continuation, and was proud of being able to make a Greek Gift work for once. Then <David2009:> introduced <Crafty End Game Trainer: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... The EGT finds an ingenious defence> and to my horror, the sacrifice doesn't work after all! White's own back rank weakness gives Black a saving resource in many of the lines I tried. |
After 50 or more tries, I finally found a continuation that wins. The key is removing Black's powerful knight from its central post.
22. Bxe5 dxe5 23. Bxh7+ Kxh7 24. Rxf7 Bg5! 25. Rxf8 Rxf8 26. Rxf8 Qxc2 27. Qh3+ Kg6 28. Ke6+ Kh7 29. Qf5+
. . . with an easily won ending.
|Aug-04-11|| ||estrick: Now I see that <abuzic> posted this line earlier|
|Aug-04-11|| ||Patriot: <estrick> <Then <David2009:> introduced <Crafty End Game Trainer: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... The EGT finds an ingenious defence> and to my horror, the sacrifice doesn't work after all!>|
I was able to win against it the first try which usually doesn't happen. I played over it again to show the win:
22.Bxh7+ Kxh7 23.Rxf7 Bg5 24.Rxf8 Rxf8 25.Rxf8 Qe7 26.Qh3+ Bh6 27.Rf1 Ng6 28.Qe6 Qh4 29.Be3 Bxe3 30.Qxe3 Ne5 31.Qf4 Qxf4 32.Rxf4 Nc4 33.Rxc4 bxc4 34.b4 cxb3 35.cxb3 Kg6 36.b4 Kf5 37.h4 Ke4 38.g4 Kxd5 39.h5 Ke4 40.g5 Kf5 41.h6 Kg6 42.hxg7 Kxg7 43.a4 d5 44.b5 d4 45.Kg1 a5 46.b6 etc.
|Aug-04-11|| ||fischer2009: I dont knoe what is happening,but i missed this pretty simple combination.|
|Aug-05-11|| ||estrick: <Patriot>
I found your variation after posting yesterday. In my first couple of attempts with EGT, I played 23. Rxc7 snatching the queen,which led to the back rank issues. For some reason, the more sound 23. Rxf8 didn't become visible to me until after a couple of hours of trying everything else.
So, you're right, the Greek Gift does work after all, although it doesn't lead to a forced mate. I didn't bother to post the 23. Rxf8 line, because after about 8 moves it resulted in the same material advantage as the line that started with taking the knight on e5, but with worse placement of White's rook (my line diverged from yours around move 28).
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