< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|May-28-09|| ||doubledrooks: Got it, but after 21...Rxg2 22. Kxf2 Bh3+ 23. Kh1 I didn't see the idea of 23..Rg8 at first, so spent lots of time looking at 21...Bh3 and other moves, didn't like them, and finally saw 23...Rg8. |
One interesting line is 21...Rxg2 22. Kxg2 Bh3+ 23. Kh1 Rg8 24. Rf1 moves (to a1, b1, c1, or d1) Qxf2, with the threat of 25...Bg2#.
Now if 25. Bf3, then Qxf3+ 26. Rg2 Qxg2#
If 25. Bf1, then Qg1#
And if 25. Rg1, then Bg2+ 26. Rxg2 Qxg2#.
|May-28-09|| ||Kasputin: Like other puzzle's this week, the move 21. ...Rxg2 pretty much jumps out at me.|
22. Kxg2 is basically forced in order to prevent ...Qxh2#
22 ...Bh3+ which frees up the remaining rook
Now white can either play 23 a) Kf3 b) Kb1 or c) Kh1
a) 23. Kf3 Qg4#
b) 23. Kb1 Qg5+; 24. Bg4 Qxg4+; 25. Kh1 Qg2#
c) 23. Kh1 Rg8 (with the threat ...Bg2+ and then ...Bf3#)
c1) 24. Rg1 Rxg1+; 25. Kxg1 Qg5+; 26. Bg4+ Qxg4+; 27. Kh1 Qg2#
c2) 24. Bf3 Qg5 and now white cannot defend by moving the rook to g1 (black captures with the queen and that is mate). It also appears that there is no defence to the threat of ...Bg2+ - if black moves the king over to h1 then Bxf3 is mate and if white trades bishops then ...Qxg2 is also mate.
Time to check.
|May-28-09|| ||Patriot: 21...Rxg2 is an obvious try since it threatens mate via Qxh2#.|
Bh3+ made the most sense because it brings another piece into the fight with check, and prepares to bring the a8-rook into the fight as well.
I quickly ruled out anything else here. Kf3 is suicidal and Kg1 allows Rg8+, losing a tempo to play Kh1 anyway.
This threatens 24...Bg2+ 25.Kg1 Bf3#
I didn't look much further because I was convinced white is lost. I considered 24.Rg1, but 24...Rxg1+ 25.Kxg1 Qg5+ and mates on g2.
|May-28-09|| ||lzromeu: Easy. 21.Ra2 was clearly an error. 21.Bf3 or/and rg1, or g3 was needed to black improve a bad position.|
|May-28-09|| ||vmi: CHESSTTCAMPS: <remolino: After 21... Rxg2, 22. Kxg2: 22... Qh3 wins folks.>
Each of us gave the flawed line 23...f3? 24.Bxf3 Qxf3, overlooking the defense 25.Qd1 and black's mating bind is gone! |
Actually, instead of 24. ...Qxf3? 24. ...Bg4! is still winning shortly.
|May-28-09|| ||Kasputin: <c2) 24. Bf3 Qg5 and now white cannot defend by moving the rook to g1 (black captures with the queen and that is mate). It also appears that there is no defence to the threat of ...Bg2+ - if black moves the king over to h1 then Bxf3 is mate and if white trades bishops then ...Qxg2 is also mate.>|
Aside from a couple of forgivable typos, I didn't think about 25. Bg4 in this line. Looks like black can still force mate with either 25 ...Bxg4 or 25 ...Bg2+
It doesn't surprise me that many kibitzers saw Rxg2 off the bat. I am a little surprised that ...Bh3+ didn't come as a natural follow-up for everyone who found the initial move - even though there are other paths to the win, this just seemed pretty obvious to me.
Anyway, I came close, and I think otb I would have played the rook sac and would have won, but I can't say that I totally solved this from the initial position because I failed to think about 25. Bg4 in the crucial line. Yes it would be easy to find an answer to that move, but I think to really nail this (and I am speaking only for myself) I should have seen and thought about all white responses. Afterall, from the initial puzzle position this is a forced mate with best play on both sides.
|May-28-09|| ||SuperPatzer77: After 22...Bh3+!, White's best move is 23. Kg1 below:|
23...Rg8!, 24. Bg4!? Bxg4! (threatening 25...Bf3#) 25. f3 Bxf3+! 26. Rxf3 (26. Rg2 Rxg2! mating in next move) Qe1+ (mates in next move)
23...Rg8! 24. Bf3 Bxf1!, 25. Qd1 Qh3 (with idea of 26...Bg2+), 26. Ra1 Bg2+, 27. Bxg2 Qxg2#
|May-28-09|| ||lzromeu: correction:
... to white improve a bad position
|May-28-09|| ||YouRang: <gofer: Having had a further look at this and read the many comments, I am now happy that the following line is not only the longest protaction for white possible, if black makes the best moves, but also has a very satisfying finish, with a queen sac...
21 ... Rxg2, 22 Kxg2 Bh3+, 23 Kh1 Rg8, 24 Bg4 f3, 25 Rg1 Rxg4, 26 Rg3 Bg2+, 27 Kg1 Qxh2+! 28 Kxh2 Rh4+ mating!>
As <Kasputin> points out, 24...Bxf4 looks like the immediate winning shot in this case. White has no good way to stop the threat of 25...Bf3#.
|May-28-09|| ||megatacos: rxg2, after kxg2, f3, if kxf3, qh3#, if bxh3, qh3, kg1, qxf3, force mate in 2|
|May-28-09|| ||megatacos: actually, bh3, kh1, bg2, kg2, rg8, kh1, qh3, rg1, f3, rg8, kg8, bf3, qf1#|
|May-28-09|| ||Edeltalent: When I solved this, I was really sorry to see 21... Rxg2 22.Kxg2 Bh3+ 23.Kh1 Rg8 24.Bf3 Qh5 being repelled by 25.Qd1.
What a pity! This would have been way more beautiful than the rather prosaic 24... Qg5.|
|May-28-09|| ||SuperPatzer77: <YouRang> Hey, yourself! |
<As <Kasputin> points out, 24...Bxf4 looks like the immediate winning shot in this case. White has no good way to stop the threat of 25...Bf3#.>
You've made a typo of 24...Bxf4. The correct one is 24...Bxg4.
<YouRang> don't worry about making a typo. You're awfully human. So are we. You're absolutely right about your commentary.
|May-28-09|| ||ruzon: Here are my deep thoughts:
21...<♖xg2> threatens mate and is therefore forcing.
21...♖xg2 <22.♔xg2> ♗h3+ 23.♔h1 ♖g8 seems too slow, allowing 24.♗f3 or 24.♖g1 (***).
21...♖xg2 22.♔xg2 ♗h3+ 23.♔h1 <♗xf1> 24.♗xf1 ♖g8 25.f3 and mate on g2 is blocked. Fie on materialism!
21...♖xg2 22.♔xg2 <f3+> 23.♔xf3 ♕f4+ 24.♔g2 ♕xe4+ 25.♔g1 and Black can't reload before 26.f3 slows down the attack. White must not be allowed to move the pawn to f3.
21...♖xg2 22.♔xg2 <♕h3+> 23.♔h1 f3 <24.♗xf3?> ♕xf3+ 25.♔g1 ♗h3 with mate next move.
21...♖xg2 22.♔xg2 ♕h3+ 23.♔h1 f3 <24.♖g1> fxe2 25.♖aa1 ♕f3+ 26.♖g2 ♗h3 27.♖ag1 ♖g8 with mate in two, and if not 25.♖a1...
21...♖xg2 22.♔xg2 ♕h3+ 23.♔h1 f3 24.♖g1 fxe2 <25.♖xe2> ♕f3+ 26.♖g2 ♗h3 with mate in one.
15+ minutes later, I'm ready to check.
(***) I did not see the value of getting a Rook to the g-file before White does. I got off the right track but it seems not far off enough to lose.
|May-28-09|| ||SuperPatzer77: <ruzon: Here are my deep thoughts: |
21...<Rxg2> threatens mate and is therefore forcing.
21...Rxg2 <22.Kxg2> Bh3+ 23.Kh1 Rg8 seems too slow, allowing 24. Bf3 or 24. Rg1 (***).>
24. Rg1 Rxg1+, 25. Kxg1 Qg5+, 26. Bg4 Qxg4+ (mating in next move).
24. Bf3 Bxf1!, 25. Qd1 Qh3! (forcing mate)
|May-28-09|| ||gofer: Thanks <SuperPatzer77> and <YouRang>, I had thought that 24 ... Bxg4 allows 25 Qd1 to slow down black's attack somewhat, but you are correct that it is still fatal and quite a bit quicker than my line...|
25 ... Bxd1, 26 Rxd1 Qg4 27 f3 Qxf3+ 28 Rg2 Qxg2#
|May-28-09|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <vmi> <[snip] Actually, instead of 24. ...Qxf3? 24. ...Bg4! is still winning shortly.>|
Good point - after 25.Bg2 Bf3! reaches the picturesque winning position that <vaskokibika> diagrammed on page 2, but by a different order of moves. So the question mark in the flawed analysis should move forward one move, as you noted.
|May-28-09|| ||akapovsky: Rxg2 in reality a nice wendsday puzzle.2.Kxg2(forced)3.Bh3+,Kh1(forced)4.Rg8!(th-
reatening mate)Bf3 5.Qg5 and there is no defense against mate.|
|May-29-09|| ||latebishop: As far as I can tell no one has suggested this defensive try from White: 21...Rxg2! 22.Kxg2 Bh3+ 23.Kh1 Rg8 and now 24.Qd1! Qg5 25.Bg4!
If now 25...Bxg4 26.f3 Bh3 27.Rg1 seems to be holding. Also 25...Bxf1 26.Qxf1 Qxg4 27.f3
If anybody comes upon this post what do you think?|
|May-29-09|| ||SuperPatzer77: < latebishop: As far as I can tell no one has suggested this defensive try from White: 21...Rxg2! 22.Kxg2 Bh3+ 23.Kh1 Rg8 and now 24.Qd1! Qg5 25.Bg4! If now 25...Bxg4 26.f3 Bh3 27.Rg1 seems to be holding. Also 25...Bxf1 26.Qxf1 Qxg4 27.f3 If anybody comes upon this post what do you think? >|
21...Rxg2! 22. Kxg2 Bh3+! 23. Kh1 Rg8! 24. Qd1 (you mention it to us) Bg2+, 25. Kg1 Bf3# 0-1
<LateBishop> You've overlooked 24...Bg2+, 25.Kg1 Bf3# (discovered check and mate).
It is actually the inevitable checkmate.
Instead of 24. Qd1, 24. Bg4!? (worth a try) Bxg4! (threatening Bf3# and White has no defense against this inevitable checkmate)
For example, 25. f3 Bxf3+!, 26. Rxf3 (26. Rg2 Rxg2!, 27. Rxf3 Qxh2#) Qe1+, 27. Rf1 Qxf1#
See gofer's commentary stating that instead of 25. f3, 25. Qd1 (only move to slow up the Black's mating attack but useless) Bxd1, 26. Rxd1 Qg4, 27. f3 Qxf3+, 28. Rg2 Qxg2# 0-1
|May-29-09|| ||latebishop: Thanks SuperPatzer77. A ghastly case of chess blindness on my part!|
|May-31-09|| ||SuperPatzer77: <Kasputin: <c2) 24. Bf3 Qg5 and now white cannot defend by moving the rook to g1 (black captures with the queen and that is mate). It also appears that there is no defence to the threat of ...Bg2+ - if black moves the king over to h1 then Bxf3 is mate and if white trades bishops then ...Qxg2 is also mate.>>|
<Kasputin & Johnlspouge> 24. Bf3 Qg5 - doesn't work - it can allow White to escape checkmate.
24...Qg5, 25. Bg4!? Qxg4 26. f3! Bg2+, 27. Kg1 Bxf3+ (27...Bxf1???, 28. fxg4 ), 28. Kf2 Qg2+, 29. Kd1 -- Black's mating attack is gone.
24...Qg5, 25. Bg4!? Bg2+, 26, Kg1! Bxf1, 27. Kxf1 Qxg4, 28. f3! Black's mating attack is gone. It sure as shooting gives Black difficulties.
In my opinion, 24. Bf3 Qg5 slows Black's mating attack down. See my best solution after 24. Bf3 below:
After 24. Bf3, Black's best move is 24...Bxf1!!, 25. Qd1 (25. Be2 Rg2!, 26. Bxf1 Qxh2# ) Qh3! 26. Ra1 Bg2+, 27. Kg1 (27. Bxg2 Qxg2#) Bxf3#
|Jun-01-09|| ||patzer2: For the Thursday, May 29, 2009 puzzle solution, the demolition 21...Rxg2! is decisive.|
|Jun-01-09|| ||patzer2: In addition to the follow-up 21...Rxg2! 22. Kxg2 Bh3+! , also good is 21...Rxg2! 22. Kxg2 Qh3+! 23. Kh1 f3 24. Rg1 fxe2 25. Qb1 Qf3+ 26. Rg2 Bh3 27. Qg1 Bxg2+ 28. Qxg2 e1Q#.|
|Jun-03-09|| ||SuperPatzer77: <patzer2> You're absolutely right about your commentary stating 22...Qh3+! is the fastest.|
Addition to <patzer2>'s analysis 21...Rxg2!, 22. Kxg2 Qh3+!, 23. Kg1 (instead of 23. Kh1 - <patzer2>'s analysis) Bd7!, 24. f3 (see below)
Rg8+, 25. Kf2 (25. Kh1 Qg2#) Qh4# 0-1
Instead of 24. f3, 24. Qd1 Rg8+, 25. Bg4 Rxg4+, 26. Qxg4 Qxg4+, 27. Kh1 Qf3+, 28. Kg1 Bh3 (mates in next move)
<patzer2>'s analysis shows us that 21...Rxg2!, 22. Kxg2 Qh3+!, 23. Kh1 f3!, 24. Rg1 (only move) fxe2, 25. Qb1 Qf3+, 26. Rg2 Bh3, 27. Qg1 Bxg2+, 28. Qxg2 e1=Q# or e1=R# 0-1
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