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Magnus Carlsen vs Peter Leko
Morelia-Linares (2007), Morelia MEX, rd 6, Feb-24
Semi-Slav Defense: Stoltz Variation (D45)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-24-07  square dance: am i missing some here? why is leko being blamed for this draw and not carlsen?
Feb-24-07  square dance: apparently im missing a 'thing'. ;-)
Feb-24-07  Udit Narayan: <square dance> Well Leko has, perhaps unfairly, been criticized in the past for his lack of killer instinct (Leko-Kramnik world championship match comes to mind, as well as Linares 2005). In other words, he has basically established a reputation as a drawer.
Feb-24-07  Dionyseus: <square dance> Leko has been known as a drawer ever since he was a young boy.

Another reason why Leko should be blamed for the draw is that he's the much higher rated player in this game, when the difference in rating is that high everyone in Carlsen's position would take the draw without second-thinking it.

Feb-24-07  Udit Narayan: <Dionyseus> I wouldn't underestimate Carlsen. He's having a fantastic tournament so far...
Feb-24-07  square dance: <Another reason why Leko should be blamed for the draw is that he's the much higher rated player in this game, when the difference in rating is that high everyone in Carlsen's position would take the draw without second-thinking it.> rating is basically irrelevant when you're an up and coming player since rating is an indicator of past performance and these guys are generally improving very fast. also, rating is basically irrelevant when one guy is +2 through the first five rounds of a tournament and the other guy is +0. so basically an in form carlsen as white is blameless for this short draw. yeah, that makes sense.

btw, will i be seeing you on the aronian-topalov page complaining about black's lack of fighting spirit in that game? ;-)

Feb-24-07  square dance: <when the difference in rating is that high everyone in Carlsen's position would take the draw without second-thinking it.> i forgot to include this in my last post. didnt carlsen turn down a draw opportunity against topalov? hmmm, i guess he just wasnt in a fighting mood today.
Feb-24-07  anjyplayer: Idiots before the tournament make false promises that they will play for win and blah blah and then never miss a chance of such a dull draw. What about the spectators, who eagerly wait for such tourneys.
Feb-24-07  Dionyseus: <square dance> You're not seriously saying that Carlsen is stronger than Leko, right?
Feb-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <Dionyseus> Where did he say that?
Feb-25-07  Dionyseus: <JointheArmy> That's the sense that I got from reading his response. I believe Leko is clearly much stronger than Carlsen.
Feb-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <Dionyseus> I agree Leko is much stronger than Carlsen. However, its a shame he doesn't put his talent to use with black as often as Topalov used to.
Feb-25-07  square dance: <dionyseus> <You're not seriously saying that Carlsen is stronger than Leko, right?> not anymore than you're seriously saying you hate hungarians.

<That's the sense that I got from reading his response.> thats quite the imagination you have. i was just saying that a player in good form with the white pieces is probably more to blame for a short draw than his opponent.

i find it interesting that you chose to ignore my refutation of this statement:<when the difference in rating is that high everyone in Carlsen's position would take the draw without second-thinking it.>

Feb-25-07  Dionyseus: < i was just saying that a player in good form with the white pieces is probably more to blame for a short draw than his opponent>

And I'm just saying that Leko should be to blame, he has the experience, he had 5 straight draws prior to this game, why didn't he try for a win? Is Leko's strength and experience not good enough to beat someone rated much lower than him, someone who has much less experience than him? Or is Leko's plan to draw every game?

<i find it interesting that you chose to ignore my refutation of this statement>

I don't see how it's a refutation, you believe something, I believe something else, which happens regularly between us.

Feb-25-07  square dance: <And I'm just saying that Leko should be to blame> yeah. there's no reasoning with you.

<he has the experience> yeah, and thats more important than a soon to be super GM at the top of his game with the white pieces.

<Is Leko's strength and experience not good enough to beat someone rated much lower than him, someone who has much less experience than him?> well, i guess it wasnt today. anyway, this experience thing is absurd since carlsen is leading the tournament while being the least experienced player. i guess by your logic he should be +0=0-6.

<I don't see how it's a refutation> i guess you're just being stupid. you said:<when the difference in rating is that high everyone in Carlsen's position would take the draw without second-thinking it.> and i refuted this nonsense by pointing out that he could've taken the draw against topalov, who is rated even higher than leko, but he chose to play on and won that game. thats called a refuation, sir.

Feb-25-07  Dionyseus: <yeah, and thats more important than a soon to be super GM at the top of his game with the white pieces.>

Super GM? Hold on a second, he's not even 2700 yet. Chances are he'll cross 2700 at least momentarily, but can he maintain it? Time will tell.

<well, i guess it wasnt today. anyway, this experience thing is absurd since carlsen is leading the tournament while being the least experienced player. i guess by your logic he should be +0=0-6.>

He's leading, at the moment. Things can change quickly, experince plays a big part in that.

<and i refuted this nonsense by pointing out that he could've taken the draw against topalov, who is rated even higher than leko, but he chose to play on and won that game. thats called a refuation, sir.>

Topalov is different, yes has a higher rating than Leko, but he plays riskier chess. Leko on the other hand plays defensively, he waits until you make a mistake. I am certain that anyone in Carlsen's position would have taken that draw against Leko.

Feb-25-07  Appaz: Henrik Carlsen claims in his blog that Carlsen didn't want to make a draw: http://blog.magnuschess.com/
Feb-25-07  square dance: <He's leading, at the moment. Things can change quickly, experince plays a big part in that.> like when leko collapsed last year? his experience didnt do him any good then. quit grasping at this experience straw because its obviously less important than who is playing well at the moment.

<Topalov is different, yes has a higher rating than Leko, but he plays riskier chess. Leko on the other hand plays defensively, he waits until you make a mistake. I am certain that anyone in Carlsen's position would have taken that draw against Leko.> ok, now you're trying to say that carlsen made this decision because of leko's style?!? gee, i could've sworn that you said exactly this:<when the difference in rating is that high everyone in Carlsen's position would take the draw without second-thinking it.> hmm, nothing about style there. looks like its all about rating. i dont get why people refuse to just admit when they're wrong. and not only wrong, but caught red handed. it happens to everybody and at least that way you retain some respectibility. because now, on top of being wrong, you're trying to back track, cover up and change your story. none of that changes the fact that you're wrong in the first place.

Feb-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <square dance> Against Topalov, Carlsen had a winning position but missed the win. It's clear that when later (!) in the game he got a chance to draw he played for a win - so to say trying to "correct himself" after the missed win.
Feb-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: It looks like Carlsen and Leko would rather be playing tennis than chess with each other (http://blog.magnuschess.com/2402070...)

<Henrik Carlsen: They did put a lot of effort into it though, and were pretty red-faced afterwards...>

Feb-25-07  Ulhumbrus: After 16...Bd6 White has an advantage in space. One recurring gain from an advantage in space is that the player can play a Rook to the third rank so that the R gains access to both the K side and the Q side. This stratagem was employed by deep Fritz to win its final match game against Kramnik. So can Carlsen use his advantage in space to play a Rook to the third rank, and perhaps double the Rooks on the d file? An alternative to 17 Rfe1 is 17 Rd3 c5 18 Qe3 getting ready for Rfd1.
Feb-25-07  chesspectator: Hi everyone, here are my thoughts when I watched this game. I`m thinking chessplayers are getting more friendly with each other, and I`m not sure I like it really. Didn`t they use to be enemies?

I have seen these videos where Grandmasters sit together after the game in "postmortem analysis", and I find it a bit academic. Have they always done this?, did Capablenca and Lasker sit together right after the match, like two amateurs teaching each other chess? Well, I guess thats not exactly what they are doing, but it shouldn`t be a taboo to keep an idea private either.

... well this is my comment, probably pretty dumb, so I hope you all exuse me :)

Feb-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Are they getting friendlier? I'd imagine so, when I was at the American Open, before the pairing for the next round started, two players in the Open Section was talking to each other.

Player 1: We've got the same score...

Player 2: Yeah, and looks like we'll be playing each other.

P1: The rating looks right, you had white last game, and I had black, so the color works...

P2: I get to play your sorry-ass?

They drew after 25 moves.

Feb-25-07  GeauxCool: <blamecasting> Who can blame Anyone for playing the draw against Leko? It follows strategic sense in a tournament, because Leko is top drawer!
May-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: In chess, the term 'draw artist' does not exist as a credible entity
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