Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Ramachandran Ramesh vs Govind Ballabh Joshi
Goodricke Open (2000), Calcutta IND, rd 4, Feb-09
Spanish Game: Closed Variations (C84)  ·  1-0



explore this opening
find similar games 214 more games of Ramesh
sac: 19.Nxf7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-26-11  alexrawlings: Really enjoyed this puzzle, and reading the comments. I feel like I've learnt something, although wouldn't expect to learn this much until at least Thursday! (ps I didn't solve it, kept trying to make 19 Qh5 work and ruled out 19 Nxh7).
Apr-26-11  Patriot: This was a tough Tuesday problem. There are quite a few candidates I looked at: Qh5, Nc5, Nxf7, Bb3

Qh5 -- Yesterday I played a 2 minute game and sac'ed my bishop on h7 with check to allow Ng5+ and the usual pattern of Qh5 (if ...Kg8). After this my opponent, seeing no way out, resigned. After the game, ...Qf5 was pointed out to me by Houdini giving black a win. This helped me rule out 19.Qh5 today, seeing that black could play 19...Qf5.

Nc5 -- It's definitely a threat but the obvious try is simply 19...Bxc5 and I'm hard-pressed to find an enduring attack.

Nxf7 -- An interesting sac allowing any of several pieces to get into the attack quickly: Bb3+, Qh5+, Qf3+, or Rf3+. It's important to be accurate here because we've already invested a piece for dynamic play.

Bb3 -- A slow maneuver, yet threatening. I didn't spend time on this as I'm always suspicious of slow moves when there are more forcing lines to examine.

Nxf7 looked to be the most promising. After examining the obvious 19...Kxf7 and the various possible checks, 20.Bb3+ stood out. 20...Kf8 21.Qf3+ Bf6 22.Nxf6 looks very convincing. The move that gave me more to calculate was 20...Kg6. Eventually I decided on 21.Rg3+ Kh6 (21...Bg5 concedes with 22.Rxg5+). I pondered on this and decided the simple 22.Qd2+ looks winning. After 22...Kh5 I didn't see 23.Rg5+!.

So I decided on 19.Nxf7 partly on intuition after 19...Kxf7 20.Bb3+ Kg6 21.Rg3+ Kh6 22.Qd2+ Kh5 because "Surely it must be winning!". But I had to calculate it out to a degree to feel good about this attack.

Apr-26-11  Patriot: <<fyad reject>: if black plays 19. ... Rc8 or something, does white just continue with 20. Bb3 anyway? or what>

20.Bb3 looks dangerous, but maybe the simple 20.Nxe5 as <CHESSTTCAMPS> points out. I recall briefly considering moving the rook but 20.Nxe5 snags several pawns for nothing so it's not something to strongly consider, although it may be black's best choice! For the purpose of analyzing though, it's a waste of time going deep into lines like this unless black has strong counter-play.

Always look at forcing lines first and if they prove to be winning then you know that your first candidate is "at least winning". This can help save time analyzing and will make you a better player.

Apr-26-11  newzild: Tough for a Tuesday, but an excellent puzzle.

My solution differs from some other posters'.

19. Nxf7 Kxf7
20. Bb3+ Kg6

(or 20. Kf8 21. Qf3+, etc)
This needs to be analysed, as it is the best defence, notwithstanding <Once>'s analysis <"too horrible for words">.

21. Rg3+ Kh6
22. Qd2+ Kh5

(or 22...g5 23. Rxg5! with a vicious discovered check to follow)

and now 23. Rxg7 looks decisive, because of the threats 24. Bf7+ and 24. Rxh7+.

If this is the "solution", then it's still very tough for a Tuesday.

Apr-26-11  CHESSTTCAMPS: <Patriot: <maybe the simple 20.Nxe5 ...>> The fork 20.Ne5 wins at least a piece, because both Qd6 and Qe6 drop the queen.
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: After looking at this "easy" puzzle, I had to double check the day of the week to make sure it was Tuesday.

I figured if it was a weekend, the solution had to be the demolition 19. Nxf7!!, but being a Tuesday this might be to much for an easy puzzle. So I first looked at 19. Qh5 and 19. Bb3 which looked promising, but didn't seem to offer as much, before going back to 19. Nxf7!!

I had no trouble figuring out the game continuation, where 20...Kf8 is met with 21. Qf3+ .

However, I had a little difficulty with finding the little pursuit line 20...Kg6 21. Rg3+ Kh6 (21...Kh5 22. Qf3#) 22. Qd2+ g5 23. Nxg5! .

Apr-26-11  Patriot: <CHESSTTCAMPS> My point is that 20.Nxe5 "at least" wins a few pawns for nothing. I didn't mean it "only" wins two pawns, which means something entirely different. This is enough to suggest that 19...Kxf7 is the only serious candidate to be concerned about and it's likely that any further analysis on that line is a waste of time.
Apr-26-11  scormus: The sort of position I used to make a habit of messing up in my games, and here it took me a while to reject all the candidate moves except 19 Nxf7. Curious, since I've more than once been on the painful receiving end of this manoever.

Interesting, what makes it work so well for W is although B has almost a full set at hand, the only piece that could block the B-check is the Q.

Oh dear, and its only tuesday as well. Maybe I need to take some holiday this week

Apr-26-11  Marmot PFL: One of the harder easy puzzles. A key line seems to be 19 Nxf7 Kxf7 20 Bb3+ Kg6 21 Rg3+ Kh6 22 Qd2+ g5 23 Nxg5 and it looks over. 19 Qh5 followed by Bb3 also look very strong though.
Apr-26-11  newton296: < newzild: Tough for a Tuesday, but an excellent puzzle.

My solution differs from some other posters'.

19. Nxf7 Kxf7
20. Bb3+ Kg6

(or 20. Kf8 21. Qf3+, etc)
This needs to be analysed, as it is the best defence, notwithstanding <Once>'s analysis <"too horrible for words">.

21. Rg3+ Kh6
22. Qd2+ Kh5

(or 22...g5 23. Rxg5! with a vicious discovered check to follow)

and now 23. Rxg7 looks decisive, because of the threats 24. Bf7+ and 24. Rxh7+.

If this is the "solution", then it's still very tough for a Tuesday.>

I agree, I saw Nxf7 Bb3+kg6 Rg3+ pushing the black king up the board but then you gotta find Qc1+ starting another 6 or 7 move combo to chase the king down. not that easy really. making this even harder for me is the fact that Qh5 or Bb3 looks strong at first glance.

I finally settled on Nxf7 after a long think of about 15 minutes.


Apr-26-11  CHESSTTCAMPS: <Patriot> Understood, but you seem to be implying that a two-pawn lead is sufficient to stop analysis, true in most instances (especially in blitz), but sometimes a bad assumption. In the position in question, analyzing through the logical consequences of the fork (just two ply further) shows a simple win.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Mate will come painfully and quickly.
Apr-26-11  Patriot: <CHESSTTCAMPS> Not at all! I'm suggesting that after winning material if the other player can't get the material back or start some kind of counter-play it is pointless to continue analyzing that line because you already know it is winning. In this puzzle, I was convinced that moving the d8-rook was just losing material because there didn't seem to be a refutation after Nxe5. Even if it wasn't winning more material white could simply take on c6 and be ahead. There's no need to see that it wins more.
Apr-26-11  ZUGZWANG67: I missed it. I even did not consider 19.Nxf7. I'm not used with this sort of manoeuver. Better learn it!
Apr-26-11  cyclon: This is not exactly "easy" but anyhow, 19.Nxf7 wins material unless Black doesn't want to get mated. Rejecting the sacrifice let's say 19. -Rd- follows 20.Nxe5 wins a piece more for BQ cannot move into a2-g8 diagonal because of the pin Bb3, also 19. -Qf5 20.Bb3 Kf8 21.Rf3 wins. Accepting 19. -Kxf7 20.Bb3+ Kg6 (-Kf8 21.Qh5 with mate to follow) 21.Rg3+ Kh6 22.Qd2+ g5 (-Kh5 23.Rxg7 and now the moves like -h6,-Bh4.-Qf5 and-Nd4 gets the answer 24.Ng3+ mating next) 23.Rxg5 intending 24.Rg8+ or Rg4+ followed by 25.Ng3+ and mating in the next move.
Apr-26-11  MaxxLange: I checked 19. Qh5 first, hitting h7 and f7. Black defends easily enough with, for example, 19...Bxg5 20 Nxg5 h6

So, on to 19. Nxf7

Apr-26-11  estrick: Couldn't solve it last night (12:03 EDT). Am used to going after h7 when the king has castled, and f7 before the king has castled. Attacking f7 after the king has castled is a pretty unusual situation for me.

This afternoon, I concluded that Nxf7 followed by Bb3+ must be the solution, but thought Qh5+ was the third move rather than Qf3+, which I thought could be parried with a simple interposition by the Black bishop on f6.

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: From a Spanish Game, I think.

White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair.

Black threatens 19... Bxg5, reducing the number of attackers.

The light squares around the black king are weak and the black castle is not properly defended. Therefore, 19.Nxf7:

A) 19... Kxf7 20.Bb3+

A.1) 20... Kf8 21.Qf3+ Bf6 22.Nxf6 Qc8 (22... Nd5 23.Nxd7+ Ke7 24.Qf7+ etc.) 23.Ng8+ and mate next.

A.2) 20... Kg6 21.Rg3+ Kh6 22.Qd2+ g5 23.Nxg5 and Black looks unable to stop 24.Nf7+ Kh5 25.Qh6#.

B) 19... Ra(b,c)8 20.Nxe5 wins a piece because 20... Qe6 or 20... Qd5 are met by 21.Bb3.

C) 19... Rf8 20.Nxe5 (probably better than the prosaic 20.Nxd8) 20... Qe8 21.Ng3 (threatening 21.Nxc6 Bxc6 22.Bxc6 Qxc6 23.Rxe7) 21... Bc5 22.Bb3+ Kh8 23.Nf7+ wins the queen.

D) 19... Qf5 20.Bb3 + - with the double threat 20.Nh6+ and 20.Nxd8+.

Apr-26-11  vulcan20: In my mind I banged out Qh5, missing the defense ...Bxg5 and the semi-obvious Nxf7. How embarrassing.
Apr-26-11  wals: Rybka 4 x 64

Game was equal 17.Rxa3, 0.40.

Black blunders,

17...Rad8, +1.54,

19...Kxf7, +10.42,

20...Kf8, +17.62,

made it easy pickings for White.

Apr-26-11  cydmd: About the basics to learn a new language from <Once>, it's likely there is a typo in his comment. So, to learn French, <Once> likely meant: "Voulez vous couchez avec moi, ce soir?". I surely would refuse that invitation from him. :)
Apr-26-11  MountainMatt: Nice to see that, on this "easy" Tuesday puzzle, others here considered up to 4 candidate moves, as I did. I eventually pared it down to either 19. Nxf7 or 19. Nxh7, but figured the bishop giving check next would be most useful. Pretty much guess work, but still got it!
Apr-26-11  TheBish: Ramesh vs G B Joshi, 2000

White to play (19.?) "Easy"

For the second week in a row, I think the "easy" problem is a little tougher than that! For one thing, there are several candidate moves to look at -- nothing jumps out as the "obvious" move.

Candidate moves: Qh5, Bb3, Nxf7

After 19. Qh5 Bxg5 20. Nxg5 h6 21. Nxf7 Qxf7 22. Bb3 Re6 and I don't see a good way to continue, definitely not winning.

If 19. Bb3 Bxg5 20. Nxg5 Rf8 21. Qh5 h6 22. Nxf7 Rxf7 23. Rf3 Rdf8 and Black has everything covered. After much thought, I found what seems to be the winning move.

19. Nxf7! Kxf7

Or 19...Rb8 20. Nxe5 Qe6 21. Bb3 wins the queen, and other 20th moves for Black allow 21. Nxc6.

20. Bb3+ Kg6

Or 20...Kf8 21. Qf3+ Bf6 22. Nxf6 wins, since 22...gxf6 23. Qxf6+ mates.

21. Rg3+ Kh6

Of course, Black runs into mate after 21...Kf5 22. Qg4# (or 22. Qf3#).

22. Qd2+ g5

Or 22...Kh5 23. Rg5+ Kh4 (23...Kh6 24. Rg8+ Kh5 25. g4+ Kh4 26. Qh6#) 24. g3+ Kxh3 25. Rh5+ Kg4 (25...Bh4 26. Rxh4#) 26. Qe2#.

23. Nxg5 with a nasty threat of discovered check. Lots of variations here, but if Black tries to escape by 23...Kg7, White wins after 24. Nf7+ Kf6 (24...Kf8 25. Qh6#) 25. Qg5#.

Time to see how this went down.

Apr-26-11  TheBish: Going back to the opening, don't understand 8. h3 before Black plays ...d6 (preparing Bg4, perhaps). Seems like White wasted a tempo here.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <TheBish> It's an Anti-Marshall system. By playing 7...0-0 instead of 7...d6, Black "threatens" to play the Marshall Attack after 8.c3 d5. By playing 8.h3, White takes some steam out of the system.

Let's follow the main line first: 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4

click for larger view

Now, 14.h3 Bxh3 is a good sacrifice for Black, so White almost has to play 14.g3, weakening his light squares on the kingside. Black's play in the Marshall is largely based on this factor.

Now, the same line if White plays 8.h3 instead of 8.c3:

click for larger view

Now instead of trying to defend h2, White has the easier task of stopping the sacrifice on h3. We have one game with this line: S Rocha vs J Costa, 2001, where White chose 14.Bxd5 and 15.Qd3. There are two other games where Black chose the 8...d5 gambit, and White won those as well.

That's a very small sample, of course, but indicates that Black has generally not chosen the Marshall after 8.h3, and White has achieved his goal of avoiding it.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
from Demolition of Pawn Structure: Sac on f7 (f2) by patzer2
Spanish Game: Closed (C88) 1-0 Nxf7 opened the door for more
from yAttacks and Sacs of f7 Vol. IV by Fredthebear by fredthebear
Chess Miniatures, Collection XVII
by PinkLedDoor
19.? (April 26, 2011)
from Tuesday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
Chess Miniatures, Collection XVII
by wwall
from Demolition of Pawn Structure: Sac on f7 (f2) by Del ToRo
Spanish Game: Closed (C88) 1-0 Nxf7 opened the door for more
from Basic Foodfight Recipe Catered by Fredthebear by fredthebear
Sp 1-0 21 drag SI
from xfer's favorite games 2011 by xfer
19.? (Tuesday, April 26)
from Puzzle of the Day 2011 by Phony Benoni
19) White to move
from Tuesday by Arcturus
19.? (Tuesday, April 26)
from POTD Ruy Lopez by takchess

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us

Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC