< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jul-05-09|| ||gofer: I was travelling this evening, so had a chance to look at this without a board and without being able to post... ...much better...|
I was struggling to make 21 Rxh7 work after 21 ... e5, but then I found Qf4!!! and everything becomes much easier...
(delaying moves like 21 ... Qa1+ for black dont achieve anything as Nb2 stops them dead)
21 Rxh7 (black must prevent 22 Rh8#)
21 ... Kxh7 22 Qh3+ Kg8 23 Qh8#
21 ... f5 22 Rg7+ Kf8 23 Qh3 with Qh8# coming soon
21 ... f6 22 Qh3 Bf8 23 gxf6 winning easily (i.e. threatening f7# and Rxg6+ mating, 23 ... e5 transposes into one of the lines below) one other line is 23 ... Re7 24 f7+ Rxf7 25 Rh8#
21 ... e5 22 Qf4!! (threatening Qxf7#, or Qh4 supporting the rook on h7, but even better the queen is immune from capture as 22 ... exf4 23 Rh8#)
22 ... Kh7+ 23 Qxf7 Kh8 24 Qxe8+ Kg7 25 Kxe7+ Kh8 26 Nd5 winning easily
22 ... f6 23 Qh4 Qd8/fxg5 24 Qh6 Bf8 25 Qxg6 Bf7 Qxf7#
22 ... f6 23 Qh4 Bf8 24 gxf6 Be6 (or a line already covered above) 25 Rxg6 Bg7 26 Rgxg7 Kf8 27 Rh8+ Bg8 28 Rhxg8#
22 ... Rf8 23 Qh4 Bxg5 24 Rxg5 f6 25 Qh6 (not Rf7 Rh8#) Kf7 26 Qg7+ Ke8/Ke6 27 Qxe7#
Time to check...
|Jul-05-09|| ||gofer: Hmmm... 75% today... missed the main line, which is a pity but nothing horrendous!|
|Jul-05-09|| ||sbevan: Well, for once I got it. Wonders never cease I guess.|
|Jul-05-09|| ||The Bycote: Eduardo Leon, 21.Rxh7 e5 22.Qf4 f5 23.gxf6ep is no doubt a creative idea as your analysis shows, but I think my analysis will show that it doesn't work.|
23...bxc3 (threatening Qa1#) 24.Bxc3 (24.f7+ Kxh7 and white can't promote because of 25...Qa1#) 24...Qa1+ 25.Kd2 Qxg1 26.f7+ Kxh7 27.fxe8=Q Bg5! and white can resign.
23.gxf6ep looks brilliant on the surface, but analysis shows that it loses whereas the simple 23.Qh4 wins easily.
|Jul-05-09|| ||Eduardo Leon: <The Bycote>, what about 23. exf6 ep bxc3 24. Kb1?|
|Jul-05-09|| ||Eduardo Leon: <23. exf6 ep bxc3 24. Kb1>|
The only move. 24. Bxc3 loses as <The Bycote>'s analysis shows.
<24. ... Kxh7>
If 24. ... exf4 25. f7+ Kxh7 26. fxe8=Q+, etc.
<25. Qh4+ Kg8 26. Rxg6+ Kf7 27. Qf7+ Ke6 28. Qh3+>
A very good move I failed to see in my previous analysis. The queen cuts off the last escape route by the h3-c8 diagonal.
<28. ... Kf7 29. Rg7+>
And mate next one.
|Jul-05-09|| ||Eduardo Leon: I am an idiot: If 23. ... bxc3?? as <The Bycote> suggests, then 24. Rxg6+, winning immediately.|
|Jul-05-09|| ||Eduardo Leon: Can anybody with an engine find a refutation to
<21. Rxh7 e5 22. Qf4 f5 23. exf6 e.p.>
|Jul-05-09|| ||remolino: After ... e5 I did not find Qf4, I guess that is why I am a patzer. CG should one day hold an annual patzer day.|
|Jul-05-09|| ||garrido: el ataque final esta muy bien llevado por las blancas|
|Jul-05-09|| ||MiCrooks: all of the discussion about f5 gxf6 e.p. that talk about Kxh7 being forced are simply in error. I see that another also commented on this (at least) but it seems they overlooked that with the pawn on f6 Black can now simply take the Queen.|
As it turns out, White's position is so strong still that he is still winning here (with best play up an exchange and a pawn or two) but all of that ignored the real problem with f5. gxf6 e.p. is NOT the best reply. Simply bringing the Queen to the h-file with Qh4 is much better.
How do you propose that Black defend? So instead of having to work through all the complications that come with pawn takes Queen, White has a simple win.
Qa1+ Nb2 just takes the Queen out of the game and saves the Knight. Now Rh8+ is coming. If bxc3 then Rh8+ Kf7 Qh7+ Ke6 Qxg6+ Kd7 Qxe8+ Kc7 Bxc3 game over. Against the immediate Bf8 Nd5 brings up deadly reinforcements.
The most basic threat is Nf6++, but the Rook and Queen are problematic as well.
This is so much better than the line gxf6 e.p. which leads to a solid but much smaller advantage. Sometimes it is hard to avoid taking e.p. - you only get that ONE chance, but this is one situation where you would be much better without it.
|Jul-05-09|| ||Eduardo Leon: <garrido>, por supuesto. La conducción del ataque es impecable, se nota que este Perović ha calculado todas las variantes con gran precisión.|
|Jul-05-09|| ||MiCrooks: Well, Bycote, it is not THAT bad. gxf6 e.p. does NOT lose. You just missed a line in your analysis. Leon, you missed it too. Just because mate is threatened doesn't mean you have to defend it!|
What you both missed was that after 23 bxc3 White has mate in two!! After Rxg6+ (CHECK!) both of Black's replies lead to mate in one. Kxh7 Qh6++ and the cute Kf8 fxe7++ (double check and mate).
|Jul-05-09|| ||MiCrooks: Oops...shoulda kept reading :) see that Leon saw his own error! That's what I get for posting before reading through everything...|
|Jul-05-09|| ||MiCrooks: There is no refutation...the only refutation is that Qh4 is a much better move. You end up getting your Queen back up and exchange with best play (in the gxf6 e.p. line). I gave some of the line but here is one possibility.|
exf4 f7+ now best is Kf8 as opposed to Kxh7 as the latter allows fxe8(q) though in the end it is only slightly better. Problem is now comes Rxg6 threatening Rg8++. This forces Black to return the Queen (at least with best play again) Qg5. Now after all of the exchanges are over White will be up the exchange and a couple of pawns but the mate threats will be gone.
In the Qh4 line Black needs to drop a piece just to survive and then STILL be in trouble with his King exposed and his other pieces undeveloped.
|Jul-05-09|| ||MiCrooks: I am curious whether the people who thought that Kxh7 was forced (missing pawn takes Queen) would have managed to over come their shock at having missed that and still come up with the winning line (f7+)? It is reasonably obvious so probably, though if you thought that KxR was need to stop Qh6 the shock of having your Queen snapped over the board might have been fatal!|
|Jul-05-09|| ||butilikefur: I don't think this is the strongest continuation but I can't see anymore.|
<21. Rxh7 e5> 21...f6 (21...f5 22. gxf6 transposes) 22. gxf6 Kxh7 (22...Bxf6 23. Rxg6+ Kxh7 24. Qh6+ mate) 23. Qh3+ Kg8 24. f7+ Kxf7 25. Qh7+ Kf8 26. Qg7+ mate
<22. Qf4 Be6> 22...Bf5 (22...Kxh7 23. Qxf7+ Kh8 24. Qxe8+ Kg7 25. Qxe7+ Kg8 26. Nd5) 23. exf5 Kxh7 (23...exd4 24. fxg6 is very strong - for example, Rf8 25. Rh8+ Kg7 [25...Kxh8 26. Qh4+] 26. Rxf8 is winning) 24. Qh4+ Kg8 25. Na4 (25. f6 bxc3 26. Bxc3 Qa1+) 25...exd4 (25...gxf5 26. Qh5 Bxg5+ [26...exd4 27. g6 is clearly winning] 27. Qxg5+ Kf8 28. Be3 with the idea of Bh6+ is crushing) 26. f6 Bf8 27. Rg3 and Black can't stop 28. Rh3 Bg7 29. Qh7+ Kf8 30. Qh8+
<23. Qh4 Bxg5+ 24. Rxg5 bxc3> 24...Kf8 Rxg6 is mating
<25. Bxc3> 25. bxc3 Qa1+ 26. Kd2 exd4 27. Qh6 Qxc3+ 28. Kd1 Qa1+ 29. Ke2 d3+ 30. Kxd3 Qf6 - yikes
<Qa1+ 26. Kd2 Qf1 27. Rgh5 gxh5 28. Rxh5> and Black will be mated.
|Jul-05-09|| ||butilikefur: aw man. 27...Rxe5!|
|Jul-06-09|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: I missed 22.Qf4, but I was favoring 21.Nd5 which might also win. 21...e5 seems to be the only viable defense.|
|Jul-06-09|| ||Eduardo Leon: Well, it's true, after 22. ... f5, 23. Qh4 is objectively better than 23. exf6. But I love brilliancies comme dans le 19ème siècle.|
|Jul-06-09|| ||agb2002: Black has the bishop pair for B+N and threatens 21... bxc3, 21... e5 (intending ... exd4 and ... Bxh3) and 21... Qa1+ 22.Kd2 Qxg1. However, his castle is weak. I've spent a long time with 21.Nd5 but was unable to make it work. The other option I considered is 21.Rxh7:|
A) 21... e5 22.Qf4
A.1) 22... Kxh7 23.Qxf7+ Kh8 24.Qxe8+ Kg(h)7 25.Qxe7+ Kh8 (25... Kg8 26.Nd5) 26.Qf8+ Kh7 27.Nd5 + -.
A.2) 22... Be6 (or 22... Rf8) 23.Qh4 + -.
A.3) 22... f5 23.Qh4 Bf8 24.Nd5 Re6 25.Rh8+ Kf7 26.Qh7+ Ke8 (26... Bg7 27.Qg8#) 27.Nc7+ Qxc7 (27... Kd8 28.Rxf8+ Re8 29.Rxe8#) 28.Qxc7 + -.
A.4) 22... f6 23.Qh4 exd4 24.Rh8+ Kf7 25.Qh7+ Ke6 26.Rxe8 Qa1+ 27.Kd2 bxc3+ 28.Ke2 cxb2 29.Qxe7#.
A.5) 22... Qa1+ 23.Kd2 bxc3+ 24.Ke2
A.5.a) 24... f6 25.Qh4 Qxg1 26.Rh8+ Kf7 27.Qh7+ Ke6 28.Rxe8 Kd7 29.Rxe7+ Kc6 (29... Kd8 30.Bb6#) 30.Rc7+ Kb5 31.Rb7+ Nxb7 32.Qxb7+ Ka5 33.Qb6#.
A.5.b) 24... f5 25.Qh4 Qxg1 26.Rh8+ Kf7 27.Qh7+ Ke6 28.Qxg6+ Kd7 (28... Bf6 29.Qxe8+ Be7 30.Rh6#) 29.Qxe8+ Kc7 30.Qxe7+ Bd7 (30... Kc6 31.Qe8+ Kb(c)7 32.Rh7+ Kb8 33.Qe7) 31.Rxa8 exd4 (31... Qg4+ 32.f3 Qg2+ 33.Bf2 cxb2 34.Ra7+) 32.Qd8+ Kc6 (32... Kb7 33.Rb8+ and mate next) 33.Rxa6+ and mate soon.
A.5.c) 24... Kxh7 25.Qxf7+ Kh8 26.Qxe8+ Kg(h)7 27.Qxe7+ Kg8 28.Rxa1 + -.
B) 21... f6 22.gxf6
B.1) 22... Kxh7 23.Qh3+ Kg8 24.Rxg6+ and mate in two.
B.2) 22... Qa1+ 23.Kd2 bxc3+ 24.Ke2 Qxg1 25.Rg7+ Kf8 26.Qh6 + -.
C) 21... f5 22.Rg7+ Kf8 23.Qh3 + -.
D) 21... Kxh7 22.Qh3+ Kg8 23.Qh8#.
E) 21... Qa1+ 22.Kd2 bxc3+ 23.Ke2 + -.
|Jul-06-09|| ||agb2002: I'm perplexed: I saw 22.Qf4 but didn't even consider Nb1 after ... Qa1+. I start suspecting that I have a serious problem with retreat moves.|
|Jul-06-09|| ||gawain: I really enjoyed this puzzle. It is easy enough to guess that White must break through with Rxh7 but the followup Qf4! is surprising and pleasing. And the final blow 27 Rxe5 is so simple and conclusive.|
|Nov-12-14|| ||Bycotron: The Bycote here. I lost my password so I made a new account. :)|
Thank you to Eduardo Leon for pointing out my chess blindness! Since posting this analysis five years ago, I have acquired Rybka so I just checked what it has to say about this game.
After the suggested:
Rybka confirms that white is winning. One sample line runs:
And after this incredibly sequence of moves, black is forced to lose a devastating amount of material!
|Mar-02-18|| ||CheckMateEndsTheGame: 22.qf4 was so hard to find|
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