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Peter Svidler vs Vladimir Kramnik
World Championship Tournament (2007), Mexico City MEX, rd 8, Sep-21
Russian Game: Nimzowitsch Attack (C42)  ·  1/2-1/2

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-21-07  you vs yourself: <dabearsrock1010> All I'm saying is this is the usual Kramnik. If you look at tournaments he won like some of the linares or dortmund this year, it's usually +2. If he wins in olympiad and dortmund, he gets the praise but when he doesn't win like in corus '07 or here(so far), people start making excuses like he's not motivated or it's not as important for him. From his comments before and during the tournament and from his white games here, it looks like he's trying to win.
Sep-21-07  Calli: I was trying to figure out 26.Bc3 when 26.Bxg7 Kxg7 27.gxh5 appears stronger. However, Black has 27...c3! 28.Ne4 Qb5 threatens mate and Qxh5, so 29.h6+ Kxh6 30.Nxc3 looks okay for Kramnik.
Sep-22-07  you vs yourself: Svidler talking about the game and explaining some of Kramnik's moves. While watching the game, I was pretty confused when Kramnik played 18..Qe2 because it invites white's rook to occupy the e-file. Kramnik spend more than 20 mins on the move. So, of course, there was a point but I didn't get it at the time. Svidler explains this move and other key ideas in this exciting(for petrov) game. http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=1244
Sep-22-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: For Svidler and the remaining chessworld there were no new findings in his game against Kramnik. So the official final result for the Russian Defence was again ascertained after 30 moves by move repetition.
Sep-22-07  Raginmund: sad, sad, sad game... if Kramnik keeps drawing and Anand keeps winning... so Anand (or Gelfand, Aronian, even Grishuk) will win.

I didn't get the Kramnik's idea for this tourney... draw with white and trying to draw with black???

I think they need to put another rule for chess: punish for not want to play.

sad, sad...

Sep-22-07  Softpaw: Great game. Some fascinating moves. Very deep play. Svidler found the a novelty in Nd2 that demanded very precise defensive play by Kramnik. Quite instructive. Qe2 and Qc6 were masterful.

<you vs yourself: ...I was pretty confused when Kramnik played 18..Qe2 because it invites white's rook to occupy the e-file. Kramnik spend more than 20 mins on the move. So, of course, there was a point but I didn't get it at the time. Svidler explains this move and other key ideas in this exciting(for petrov) game. http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=1244>;

Interesting video. Svidler and Kramnik agree that Black was under considerable pressure. In the end, Svidler saw the only alternative as Qg2, but he found a long forced variation that he felt may give Black an endgame edge, so he took the draw.

Again, great game!

Sep-22-07  Softpaw:
<Raginmund: I didn't get the Kramnik's idea for this tourney... draw with white and trying to draw with black???>

Wrong. Kramnik has been trying to WIN with white, but he hasn't gotten as many wins has he would like. It's that simple.

Time will tell if he decides to go for wins with Black as well to catch up.

Sep-22-07  THE pawn: <I think they need to put another rule for chess: punish for not want to play.>

I think Chessgames needs to put another rule for Kibitzing: no children.

Sep-22-07  Raginmund: [softpaw] thank you so much for correcting me.

You know, I'm a fanatic Kramnik fan, everytime I try to play like him; so bigger as Kasparov, Karporv, Tal and others great champions... I got down when I saw him playing a drawish position...

I hoped he had played c5!! the sicilian, playing for win. I got so frustrated when I thought Anand (of course, he deserves to win, he's a very nice player) and Gelfand could let him behind.

I saw the game all the time... :( I wish he could win in his typical style... that's it.

[THEpawn] ahhahhahahhahah... nice, guy... very funny your comment

Sep-22-07  Softpaw: <Raginmund: I hoped he had played c5!! the sicilian...>

Sure, that would have been exciting. But at this level, preparation is critical. Kramnik has perfected a specific repertoire designed for solid, risk-minimizing play, ideally suited for matches. Even if Kramnik has played Sicilians in the past, that doesn't mean he can easily switch back to the Sicilian NOW, given how theory has advanced and how you lose the feel for certain openings when not playing them regularly (Svidler would've been a dangerous Sicilian opponent!)

Perhaps Kramnik HAS prepared some more aggressive Black opening variations and will uncork them if he really wants to win this tournament and sees no other way. We haven't gotten to that point yet.

Kramnik's problem in this tournament is not that he hasn't played aggressively enough with Black, but that he hasn't WON often enough with White! He needs to go for the kill and get it-- with White! And only go for broke with Black as a last resort.

There has only been one single solitary Black win in this tournament--Anand's. One Black win in 32 games. Keep that in mind.

Sep-22-07  THE pawn: <Raginmund> sorry, my comment was harsh. I apologise.

Sep-22-07  amuralid: From Mig Greenard of chess ninja:
<Svidler got a little something against Kramnik's Petroff, which is news in and of itself. Just making Kramnik take a very long thing is a real achievement these days. White's new 18.Nd2, preparing f3-g4, was the new idea, hiding the queen on h2 to avoid the swap. Kramnik spend around 40 minutes on his response and what a response! 18..Qe2! looks horrible, allowing the white rook to move to the open file and then putting the queen on g4 anyway. Nick and I knew there must be some point to such a move, but it wasn't easy to fathom. It eventually became clear that the idea was to be able to play ..Rxe1+ and ..Re8 to liquidate attacking forces after ..Bd6 and ..Ng7. If the white rook is still on d1, then Bd4, threatening to eliminate the defending black knight on g7, is stronger. Black had other defensive ideas, but the depth of this one is really something. To his credit, Svidler (who may have seen ..Qe2 in his prep since he still moved fairly quickly) sacrificed a pawn with 24.c4 to keep fighting. GM de Firmian thought White squandered the last of his slim chances to keep a plus with the slow 26.Bc3. The game was drawn on move 29.>

Sep-22-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: <Raginmund: ... I didn't get the Kramnik's idea for this tourney... draw with white and trying to draw with black???>

LMAO!

Yes, that is not exactly a good way to try and win tournaments.

Sep-22-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Resignation Trap: Photo of the game in progress: http://www.chesspro.ru/_images/mate... .
Sep-22-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: <Softpaw: ... Kramnik's problem in this tournament is not that he hasn't played aggressively enough with Black, but that he hasn't WON often enough with White!>

That's the major problem with Kramnik's entire approach to the game.

His goal is to convert small advantages with White into wins. When his opponents play well (Svidler, Gelfand, and especially Grischuk), he simply cannot win those games because his advantage is not big enough.

And if Morozevich had not gotten into severe time trouble, Kramnik would probably be winless(!) right now after 8 rounds.

Sep-22-07  KingG: <And if Morozevich had not gotten into severe time trouble, Kramnik would probably be winless(!) right now after 8 rounds.> If Morozovich hadn't got into severe time trouble then Kramnik would probably have taken more time himself, and would not have given Moro the chance to come back into the game.
Sep-22-07  acirce: It's a highly interesting game with nice preparation by Svidler (out-preparing Kramnik these days is already spectacular) that posed problems for Kramnik, a fascinating position, very good defensive moves with subtle points (in particular 18..Qe2, at which point it seems Kramnik had already seen the contours of what would come), etc. 24.c4! is an important move and Kramnik was forced to find 25..Qc6! Svidler: "Black is just holding on... I think Black is holding on tempo by tempo"

I still think Svidler could have played on though. Svidler dismissed 27.Qg2 (or 29.Qg2) because of 27..hxg4 and now 1) 28.Qxg4 Rxe1+ 29.Rxe1 Re8 30.Ne4 f5 31.Nf6+ Kf7 32.Qxc4+ Re6 where Black is out of danger or 2) 28.Ne4 gxf3 29.Qxf3 Nxh5 <and I couldn't see any continuation of my attack>, however Ian Rogers at http://main.uschess.org/content/vie... points out 30.Ref1! here and Black has big problems. He gives <30...Re7 31.Nxc5 Qxc5 32.Rhg1! with a massive attack> as a sample line. The daring 30..f5 31.Nxc5 Qxc5 32.Rhg1 Kf7 simply does not work: it looks extremely dangerous in any case, but the computer discovers quickly that 33.Rxg6! is simply immediately killing. So Black would have to find an improvement before 30.Ref1, but it's not so easy to find anything good. With this in mind, Svidler is probably right that Black should have played something like 26..Rad8 instead of "forcing a draw" which isn't there.

Sep-22-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: <acirce: ... <and I couldn't see any continuation of my attack>, however Ian Rogers at http://main.uschess.org/content/vie... points out 30.Ref1! here and Black has big problems.>

Position after 30 ♖e1-f1! "Black has big problems":


click for larger view

<He gives <30...Re7 31.Nxc5 Qxc5 32.Rhg1! with a massive attack> as a sample line.>>

Position after 32 ♖h1-g1! "with a massive attack":


click for larger view

Anyone care to run a strong chess engine on these positons to see how strong of an attack White has in the above positions that Svidler and Kramnik both missed?

For the record, in the final diagram Fritz 6 Light gives White a -huge- advantage of < 3.28>, meaning that the position is totally winning for White.

Too bad Anand didn't get these positions against Kramnik in Round 3. :-)

Sep-22-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessmoron: Toga II 1.2.1a says +0.45 if Kramnik plays 32...f5.
Sep-23-07  orio24: I was leaving after 27. ♕g3.
I was traveling since, and I thought how this game could ended. I expected fierce fight, attack on both sides, (or on side vs. counter attack in center) etc.

Now I came back, and... well, draw in the same position I left!

These two guys just agree on draw in any position (see the first round too), doesn't matter whether playable or not. That's strange.

Sep-23-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: <chessmoron: Toga II 1.2.1a says +0.45 if Kramnik plays 32...f5.>

Could you please post the principal variation (PV) for this line with the +0.45 eval?

Like I said above, Fritz 6 Light (I know, an old engine) says White has a huge advantage ( 3.28), much more in agreement with GM Rogers' "massive attack" comment than Toga's paltry +0.45.

Sep-23-07  Eyal: In the diagram position, after 32.Rhg1, 32...f5 obviously loses very quickly to Rxg6+ (or Qxh5). Fritz 10 evaluates the position after White's 32nd move as +4.50/+5 at 16-17 ply. Black is helpless against the threat of 33.Rg5 followed by Qxh5 (or Rxh5+, in case of 32...Kh7). 32...f6 loses to 33.Rxg6+ Rg7 34.Rxg7+ Nxg7 35.Qxf6 Qf8 36.Rg1 Qxf6 37.Bxf6 and Black remains a piece down.

Sep-24-07  Raginmund: <THEpawn> No need to apologise mate, in Brazil we don't take serious an inoffensive kidding.

I revised the game by the eyes of Michail Marin... I'm surprised, cause I thought I very boring game (that's because I wish Kramnik could win), and all the comments helped me so see that was a nice game, as Marin says, rich of novelty and strategical improvement.

Go Kramnik!!! for win

Aug-06-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: (VAR) Position after 32 ♖h1-g1!


click for larger view

Too bad Svidler (White) failed to find this line during the game.

This variation leads to a very instructive attacking position showing the importance of <OPEN LINES> when attacking the enemy king: the White f1-,g1-rooks blast the Black g8-king along the <HALF-OPEN FILES> f-,g-files while the momstrous <UNOPPOSED> dark-squared White c3-bishop irradiates the Black g8-king along the <OPEN DIAGOANL> a1-h8.

Meanwhile Black has no counterplay whatsoever.

Aug-06-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: (VAR) Position after 32 ♖h1-g1!


click for larger view

Now -THIS- is what I call the Nimzowitsch <-ATTACK-> variation of the Petroff Defense.

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