| Aug-27-08 | | LaFreaK: where is the win here |
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| Aug-27-08 | | syracrophy: 41...h2+! 42.♗xh2 ♖g2+ 43.♔h1 ♖g3+ 44.♖f3 ♗xf3# |
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Aug-27-08
 | | sleepyirv: 43... h2+ 44.Bh2 Rg2+ 45.Kh1 Rg8+(anywhere on g) 46. Rf3 Bf3++ Very pretty |
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| Aug-27-08 | | dzechiel: <LaFreaK: where is the win here> It must have been found during the adjournment analysis. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | saintstephen11: <kap54: Despite the simplicity of the situation, black seems to be at a loss for what to do after move 35. He must have been in time trouble. After 36...hxg3, it would have been all over for white.> Doesn't 37. d7 win for white? |
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Aug-27-08
 | | al wazir: White could have won with 36. Rf4. |
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Aug-27-08
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Visually, "Zwickmuhle" looks beautiful. Does it mean "windmill?" Considering <al wazir's> suggestion, it would seem that *both* players were in terrible time pressure, and Black should have played the combination rather than recapture the Queen. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | Manic: I want to know how:
1) A 2200 would miss a relatively simple win like this (OK I admit I did not see it but I still think someone that strong would and I only spent 20 seconds thinking about it) and also possibly why:
2) Adjournments would still be used at this day and age, assuming <dzechiel> is correct as since the game finishes at move 40 it is likely. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | Manic: OK, don't worry now I see. I forgot about the time trouble, so I assume that at move 40 white had time, saw the combination and resigned. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | mjk: <An Englishman>, yes, a Zwickmuehle is a windmill when talking about chess, otherwise it is a dilemma. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwickm... |
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| Aug-27-08 | | charms: @An Englishman: though "mühle" means mill, "zwickmühle" is a catch-22 situation; it originates from the nine men's morris game.
In chess, it refers to the rook + bishop motif at the end of the game. One other famous example is the Torre-Lasker game. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | mjk: 36.♖f4 ♖d2+ 37.♖xe4 ♖xd1+ 38.♔h2 hxg3+ 39.♔x♙ ♗c5 does not look terribly winning for White. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | NewLine: Since 15...g5, black had started a deadly attack on the white king;
however white just toying on the queen side with 19.Nxb5, 22.Qb2, 23.bxc4, 25.cxd5, eventually leaving his king hopelessly.
Not wise choices by white IMO. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | tzone135: saintstephen11:
Doesn't 37. d7 win for white?
No 37. d7 is an illegal move as white is in check |
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| Aug-27-08 | | whiteshark: 37...h2+! starts a nice double bind mating combination. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | saintstephen11: <tzone135: saintstephen11:
Doesn't 37. d7 win for white?
No 37. d7 is an illegal move as white is in check> Not in the scenario proposed by kap54. That was what I was responding to. His suggestion that 36...hxg3 wins for black. It is refuted by 37. d7+ |
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| Aug-27-08 | | DarthStapler: This is the Asian championship? Those don't sound like Asian names |
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| Aug-27-08 | | kevin86: The game was played in Asia-with all of the power of the "windmill" it could have been played in Holland-OR Iowa... Funny that the lethal check actually comes (or will come) by a rook move along the g-file after all of the checks from the rook along the 2nd row. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | kevin86: Note:those tempo checks put black very dangerously close to repeting the position three times. In fact,if he made the 41st move Rg2+,white could have claimed the draw. If time control had come a few moves later,black just might have done it. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | Justawoodpusher: Here the link to the Torre-Lasker game given as an example of a "Zwickmühle" in the Wikipedia-article mentioned by <mjk>:
Carlos Torre vs Lasker, 1925 |
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Aug-27-08
 | | Once: Hmmm - is this acceptable or unacceptable gamesmanship? Black thinks: "I don't know how to win this position, but I can safely repeat moves until the adjournment when a much stronger colleague or a computer will win the game for me. I just have to be careful not to allow a draw by threefold repetition." Should we admire black's pragmatism or worry that he/she may have had outside assistance? |
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Aug-27-08
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Interestingly enough, per Rybka demo v2.2n2.mp.w32, the position after 31 Qxb6, below, is a forced mate in 11 for black. 
click for larger viewOkay, here goes...
31…Rxf2+ 32 Kg1 Rg2+ 33 Kh1 Rxa2+ 34 Rf3 Bxf3+ 35 Kg1 hxg3 36 Qb5+ Kf8 37 Kf1 h2 38 Qb8+ Bxb8 39 Rd8+ Ke7 40 Rd7+ Kxd7 41 c4 h1Q# 
click for larger view |
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Aug-27-08
 | | Sneaky: <"I don't know how to win this position, but I can safely repeat moves until the adjournment...."> Well adjournments have pretty much been eliminated in modern chess, due to faster time controls, and also the use of increments. They used to very common, and were part of the game. When they were employed, it was not considered cheating to get outside assistance. In the 1960's one of the USSR's strengths in international events is their incredible analysis teams. They'd brew the coffee, and stay up all night tearing apart adjourned positions and give the player a report of their conclusions in the morning. And we're not just talking about some obscure Russian masters on this team, we're talking about players like Botvinnik! <is this acceptable or unacceptable gamesmanship? ... Should we admire black's pragmatism or worry that he/she may have had outside assistance?> I don't know about "admire" but I don't think there's anything shameful in exploiting the rules to maximize their benefit. If we find that unsettling then the problem is with the rules, not the player. In the case of adjourned games, the rules did indeed get changed. It came at the expense of faster time controls and people have mixed feeling on that sacrifice. |
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Aug-28-08
| | al wazir: <mjk: 36.Rf4 Rd2+ 37.Rxe4 Rxd1+ 38.Kh2 hxg3+ 39.KxP Bc5 does not look terribly winning for White.> You're right. I think 36. Rd4 Rf2 37. Kg1 (37. Rxe4? Rxf1+ 38. Kh2 hxg3+ Kx♙, etc., as in your analysis) is a better try. It looks like a draw after 37...Rxf1+ (37...h2+? 38. Bxh2) 38. Kxf1 hxg3 39. Rxe4 (39. Rxd6? Bd5 40. e4 h2 41. Kg2 Bxe4+; 39. exd6? Bc6 40. e4 e5 41. Rb4 b5 42. Kg1 Kd7) g2+ 40. Kg1 Bc5 41. Rd4! Bxd4 (41...Kf7 42. Rf7+ K moves 42. Rf3) 42. exd4. But it loses to 37...hxg3 38. Rxf2+ (38. Rxe4 h2+) gxf2+. |
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| Dec-05-10 | | Kinghunt: The win is 41...h2+ 42. Bxh2 Rg3+ 43. Rf3 Bxf3#. I suspect black was simply in severe time trouble and didn't want to risk blowing the win, so simply spent the last few moves marking time to get time to think it through. This was NOT a win found in an adjournment, because adjournments were eliminated long before 2007. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 23...Rxg2+