< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 32 OF 32 ·
|Dec-15-07|| ||znprdx: <artemis:> of course! Thanx much obliged |
BTW the move that I found to be the most astounding (and winning of the half point) was ...36.Rd8 Wouldn't most of us chosen ...Re8 I think this is where Shirov put himself into supreme time pressure - because he also was surprised
|Dec-15-07|| ||Ulhumbrus: <moronovich: Fischer was black in the third game (Modern Benoni 0-1) in a an almost mustwin sit. as he was already trailing Boris by 0-2 and had actually never won a game from him , but lost 4 (or3).Many dont recall this fact , which could have turned the chesshistory upside down.> Spassky said in an interview that there was an incident before the third game where Fischer shouted "shut up" at the referee.According to Spassky he knew that he had lost the match after agreeing to play in a back room after that. Another fact which many don't recall (or don't know) is that in his match against Keres in 1965, Spassky gained a result which could have been forecast from Fischer at his best. This suggests that at his best Spassky played as strongly as Fischer, and Spassky gained an even score in games 10-20. Fischer may have said himself somewhere that Spassky had put him under pressure in those games. It is possible that if Spassky had insisted on his rights before the third game, Fischer would have lost the match.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||slomarko: in other words Fischer did a "Danailov" to Spasski.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||boz: I think the game <artemis> was referring to was game 24 in 1985: Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Peligroso Patzer: Yes, <boz>, I'm pretty sure that was the game (from the re-scheduled match after the aborted 1984-85 marathon) <artemis> was thinking of. After 23 games, Karpov trailed 11-12 and needed to win #24 with White to retain his title. He pressed too hard and lost in the game you linked.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||moronovich: <Ulhumbrus> Thanks for the info.I did nnot know about "the shup up " episode.But it confirms my attitude that Fischer reacted like a spoiled boy in Reykjavik.And it is not unlikely that the course of the happenings would have gone the other way if Bobby had behaved like a gentleman or at least a "little" more mature.
But I am aware of that many like the picture of the litle man vs the system.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Peligroso Patzer: If you are still on-line, <boz>, you might enjoy this game: Botvinnik vs Smyslov, 1958, which was cited by <SwitchingQuylthulg> at page 202 of the World Chess Cup (2007) thread as an example of 0-1 in a must-win game for Black. |
Smyslov trailed in the match by 9-12 at the start of the game, and needed to win three straight to retain the title he had won in 1957. By winning in the above-linked game as Black, Smyslov extended the match, but he only got a draw in game 23 with White, and Botvinnik thereby regained the WC title.
|Dec-15-07|| ||boz: Thank you <Peligroso Patzer>. I'm going to have a look at that game right now.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||boz: Nice game under pressure by Smyslov. I guess Botvinnick didn't see the play on the light squares after 34...Rxg2.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Ezzy: A Shirov v G Kamsky
FIDE World Cup 2007 Khanty-Mansiysk (7.3), 15.12.2007
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.00 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 00 9.d4<Shirov played 9 h3 in the first game.> 9...Bg4 10.Be3 exd4 11.cxd4 Na5 12.Bc2 c5 13.Nc3 cxd4 14.Bxd4 Nc6 15.Bb3 Rc8N <Smyslov played 15...Bxf3 back in 1965. 15...Nxd4 has also been played. >16.Re3 <Shirov wants to keep his kingside pawns intact after possible ...Bxf3 >16...Nd7 <Threatening 17...Bg5 to counter whites ideas, but white has a knight move to d5 to clear a path for his rook to c3 >17.Nd5 Bg5 18.Rc3 b4 19.Rc4 Bxf3 20.gxf3< [20.Qxf3 Nde5]> 20...Nxd4 <Kamsky would have looked at the alternative [20...Nde5 21.Bxe5 dxe5 (21...Nxe5?? 22.Rxc8 Qxc8 23.f4) 22.Nxb4 Nd4 Looks ok for black]> 21.Rxd4 a5< Computers give 21...Bc1! but it is certainly not an easy move to spot. [21...Bc1 22.Rxc1?? Qg5+]> 22.f4 Bh6 23.Qg4< With the idea 24 Ne3 25 Nf5. White has a slight advantage because black is a bit tied up in development. If black plays 23...Re8 then 24 Ba4 keeps black tied up.> 23...Rc5 24.Ne3< Threatens 25 Rxd6 winning >24...Nf6 <Only move >25.Qf3< Shirov still has the dangerous 25 e5 threat.> 25...Qa8 26.Rad1 g6 27.Nc4 a4 <Computers feel (do they have emotions :-)) that the d6 pawn is doomed anyway, so why not 27...d5 and keep his queenside pawns intact.> 28.Nb6 Qc6 29.Nxa4 Rc1 30.Rxb4 <2 passed pawns for Shirov> 30...Rxd1+ 31.Bxd1< Giving up the f4 pawn for active piece play is a viable alternative. [31.Qxd1 Bxf4 32.Nc3 Aiming for the strong d5 square. And holding better chances of playing for a win than in the game continuation.)> 31...Qc1 32.e5?! <This activates black's queen and he starts to coordinate his pieces.> 32...dxe5 33.fxe5 Qg5+ 34.Kf1 Qxe5 35.h3 Bd2 36.Rc4 Rd8 37.Bb3 Kg7 38.Kg2 Qg5+ 39.Qg3 Qd5+ 40.Qf3 Qg5+ 41.Qg3 Qd5+ <And Shirov decides not to risk a loss, and puts his faith in a final game with the black pieces.> ½½
Another interesting and complicated game by these two tough players. Shirov is trying to pile on the pressure, but Kamsky is proving to be extremely resilient.
A great final so far. Shirov is going to come out all guns blazing tomorrow. Hold on to your seats!
|Dec-15-07|| ||cotdt: Cool anal. <Ezzy>
Game 3 Press Conference:
|Dec-15-07|| ||suenteus po 147: <cotdt> You reminded me of an episode of Arrested Development where a character trains to be both an analyst and therapist. On his business cards it shows him to be a licensed Analrapist.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||cotdt: <suenteus po 147> Not sure I follow what you are trying to say?|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Jim Bartle: I missed that one, but there was so much happening on that (great) show that half of it probably flew right by me.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||suenteus po 147: <cotdt> Forget for a moment that <Cool anal.> has any abbreviations....|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Eyal: Shirov mentions in the press conference the possibility of <30.Nc3> (instead of Rxb4), which might have given him very good winning chances - more than just the "slight advantage" he's talking of. After 30...Rxd1+ 31.Nxd1:|
click for larger view
White's pieces are considerably more active and well-coordinated than in the game, and Black - with a pawn down and 2 weak pawns on b4 and d6 - has considerably less copunterplay. Engine evaluations are quickly rising here to the +1.5-2 zone.
|Dec-15-07|| ||Ezzy: <cotdt: Cool anal. <Ezzy>> Funniest comment I have heard for ages. Can't stop laughing. You will be hearing from my solicitor though :-)|
|Dec-15-07|| ||masig: <Eyal:> Shirov mentions in the press conference the possibility of <30.Nc3>...|
I came in shortly after this move and was quite surprised Shirov didn't opt for it. After 32.Nxd1, White will probably lose the pawn on f4 from ensuing 32...Nh5 but I'm not sure if Black wants to further lose another pawn to 33.Rxb4. Either way it looks as if the relatively conservative (per Shirov's) play at this juncture was White's undoing.
|Dec-15-07|| ||Eyal: <masig: After 31.Nxd1, White will probably lose the pawn on f4 from ensuing 31...Nh5 but I'm not sure if Black wants to further lose another pawn to 32.Rxb4.> In case of 31...Nh5, 32.f5 might be even stronger for White, with the initiative on both flanks.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Eggman: <Moronovich> Korchnoi was never in a must-win-with-Black situation in 1978. Maybe you are thinking of the 1974 Candidates final, in which Korchnoi with Black had to win the last game to level it and Karpov clinched the match by taking a draw in a winning position.|
|Dec-15-07|| ||Eggman: <<Another fact which many don't recall (or don't know) is that in his match against Keres in 1965, Spassky gained a result which could have been forecast from Fischer at his best.>>|
Not sure what you are talking about here, <Ulhumbrus>. Are you thinking of the 1964 candidates match between these two, which Spassky won 6-4, or is there some other, more lopsided match that I don't know about?
|Dec-15-07|| ||Aspirador: Anand probably changed his mind by now and will rather play Kramnik than Kamsky in the next match.|
|Dec-18-07|| ||Astardis: Maybe it's just me but isn't Shirov's Rook menouevering around move 20 a bit odd? Looks almost amateurish to me in a way.|
|Dec-18-07|| ||Ulhumbrus: <Eggman: <<Another fact which many don't recall (or don't know) is that in his match against Keres in 1965, Spassky gained a result which could have been forecast from Fischer at his best.>>
Not sure what you are talking about here, <Ulhumbrus>. Are you thinking of the 1964 candidates match between these two, which Spassky won 6-4, or is there some other, more lopsided match that I don't know about?> According to the database, the match was played in 1965 and not in 1964.|
|Jan-01-08|| ||minasina: http://chesspro.ru/chessonline/onli... (Translated: http://www.google.com/translate?u=h... The board is not functioning at the translated page.)|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 32 OF 32 ·