< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-12-08|| ||newzild: Maybe 9.Qb3 is a more serious test.
|Sep-12-08|| ||Gilmoy: 18.Rfb1 <cedes f3> Bxh3 :)|
|Sep-12-08|| ||IT4L1CO: A rook can win against a knight an a bishop, but a bishop and a knight win against a queen. I really can't understand this game...|
|Sep-12-08|| ||TheaN: <A rook can win against a knight an a bishop,>|
...usually not. Points wise it's already more (3x2=6 > 5x1=5), but the main rule is that two pieces can coordinate better than one better piece, so in the case of N+B>R. In N+B<Q, this is different, as the Queen can hassle any coordination from the Bishop by controlling diagonals: in short, a Bishop can harass a Rook freely, but not a Queen.
<but a bishop and a knight win against a queen.>
So usually not.
<I really can't understand this game...>
It's vague how Black got to such an advantage, and indeed, I don't understand it either.
|Sep-12-08|| ||jack1501: i have a question that is off topic, does anyone remember yesterday's opening of the day? thanks|
|Sep-12-08|| ||JG27Pyth: There's an amusing position that could arise in continuation from the final position.|
Suppose white wants to struggle on and plays Qg8? -- threatening Qxh7+ ...
Black responds Nf8! And now the Queen has _no_ moves. A maximum security prison from which there is no hope of escape.
|Sep-12-08|| ||YetAnotherAmateur: The reason black got such an advantage (as far as I can see) is that white spent a great deal of time shuffling the queen up and down the b file rather than dealing with the fact that black was still capable of hurting him.|
The other big error I saw was leaving a nice large hole at d4.
|Sep-12-08|| ||Kasputin: Wow. Players from Nova Scotia. Now that is a surprise!|
|Sep-12-08|| ||kevin86: Is the sacrifice sound? The proof of the pudding is in the eating-and this tastes great!|
In exchange for the queen,black has-
two pieces,an open file to work with,a dragon bishop,and an exposed enemy king.
That may not add up to a queen,but in this case it worked. In another case,it might be somewhat different.
|Sep-12-08|| ||Phony Benoni: Evidently, White forgot to hold the Mayo.|
|Sep-12-08|| ||Riverbeast: This game is very Suttles-esque..I'm not surprised this game was played in Canada...I think Duncan Suttles influenced a lot of Canadian players with his creative ideas in the Modern|
|Sep-12-08|| ||eternaloptimist: <Phony Benoni: Evidently, White forgot to hold the Mayo.> Lol, the funny puns just never stop from cg.com & the people that love it! :D Phony Benoni, u definitely ain't right. Yes, this game is very Suttles-esque; he was one of the most creative players of all time when he was active in trnts.|
|Sep-12-08|| ||Riverbeast: There are other examples of sacrifices where two pieces and a pawn, as well as dark square control, overcame a queen. |
Tal played a famous sacrifice (with similar compensation) in the kings indian, where he left his queen hanging on a5....Maybe someone remembers it
|Sep-12-08|| ||Cactus: I really don't get the pun.
In anycase it was a great game. I doubt when white played 6.Nd5 he expected 6...dxe3!?
|Sep-12-08|| ||erimiro1: It looks like Black has 3 benefits from the sac: the long diagonal a1-h8, the uncomfortable place of the white king and the semi open "a" line. That's all? No. White was completely shocked and confused by the sac, and failed to find the best defence. I can't see the great masters of defence Steinitz, Capablanca and Petrosian lose such a game.|
|Sep-12-08|| ||eternaloptimist: <Cactus: I really don't get the pun.> They are non-profit medical practices & are located in several different places around the United States.|
|Sep-12-08|| ||algol: <jack1501: i have a question that is off topic, does anyone remember yesterday's opening of the day? thanks> May be the Tarrasch variation of the Queen's Gambit Declined... Not sure, I looked in the history of my internet browser for access to the Opening explorer and it is the only opening I accessed on this site on 9/11...|
|Sep-12-08|| ||drukenbishop: hello gang! i also have an amusing position that could arise in continuation from the final position.|
Suppose white wants to struggle on and plays Qa3? -- threatening black's rook ... Black responds RxQ!!! And now the Queen has been captured. A true hoodwink which there is no hope of escape.
|Sep-13-08|| ||ajile: This game wasn't a Uuetopia for White.|
|Sep-14-08|| ||TheaN: <hello gang! i also have an amusing position that could arise in continuation from the final position.|
Suppose white wants to struggle on and plays Qa3? -- threatening black's rook ... Black responds RxQ!!! And now the Queen has been captured. A true hoodwink which there is no hope of escape.>
XD. I think <JG27Pyth>'s line was a tiiiny bit more logical for the reason why White resigned.
|Sep-14-08|| ||drukenbishop: you and I have VERY different meanings of 'logical'!!!|
|Sep-19-08|| ||eternaloptimist: <ajile: This game wasn't a Uuetopia for White.> Like I posted earlier, the funny puns just never stop!|
|Sep-20-08|| ||mack: Mayo is a member of this site and has acknowledged the influence of Suttles on several occasions.|
|Sep-25-08|| ||NMAlvahMayo: Hmmm, where to begin.... I played Black in this game and I have a number of thoughts on this game. I have no doubts that the line as played was completely justified and correct from Black's perspective and leads to an advantage. |
White's problems begin with the move 4.Be3 which is an error. What follows should be understood in the context of Steinitz who wrote that the player with the advantage MUST attack (punish the mistakes of) his opponent.
The move is flawed because it defends d4 at the cost of leaving b2 defenseless. Thus, the reply Qb6 is indicated; it adds an attacker to d4 and hits b2. Remember Capa; the basic advantage in chess is the unit that holds two!
White found his best reply with Nc3 where Black can already force White to take a draw after Qxb2. This fact reinforces the conclusion that White's 4th was a mistake else why could Black gain a forced draw so easily? In a way, this is unfortunate since it means no strong White Player will allow this position since they will not want to risk Black forcing this draw after Qxb2.
Now, since White has committed an error and we are trying to punish him, Qxb2 doesn't seem the way to do it. Also, if the opponent ignores your threat it is usually correct to carry out that threat for at least one move. Thus, 5...cxd4 for Black.
Now after 6.Nd5, if you run away with the queen then White simply plays Bxd4 and has an edge. This means that retreating the queen is illogical; White has a disadvantage and must be punished. Once you realize that, 6...dxe3 is easy to find.
For the queen, Black has an ultra safe king, two minor pieces and a pawn plus almost total dark square control (exacerbated by White's failure to even attempt to retain his knight, the only non female piece able to influence the dark squares).
White has a displaced king, development deficit and a horrible white bishop with no active prospects. He is faced with the immediate loss of two more pawns with Bxb2 and so his Queen is confined to defensive duties. One other critical factor to be considered is that White does not have a single effective pawn lever at his disposal. He does not even have the prospect of an active exchange sacrifice to alter the position (only perhaps passive sacs with Rd5 at some future point).
Contrast this with the Black position where since the White b pawn can't move, this pseudo isolates the c pawn and for that, Black has TWO pawns to use as levers against that point. Also, consider the lovely squares Black gets for his minors....e5 e6 c5 c6 or even d4 beckon piece placement.
My post game analysis (as the line I played was logically inspired over the board and not prepared) which I conducted "postal style" over about 20 hours confirmed my judgement during the game.
As always, comments and/or questions are welcome.
|Sep-25-08|| ||Stonehenge: <JG27Pyth: There's an amusing position that could arise in continuation from the final position.
Suppose white wants to struggle on and plays Qg8? -- threatening Qxh7+ ... Black responds Nf8! And now the Queen has _no_ moves. A maximum security prison from which there is no hope of escape.>|
Nonsense, after 49.Qg8 Nf8 50.h4 Rxg3 51.Kh1 Rh3+ 52.Kg2 Rxh4 53.Kf3 Rh3+ 54.Kg4 Re3 55.Kg5 Rxe4 56.Qg7+ Bxg7 it's stalemate.
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