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Fred A Foulds vs Lang
"Foulds Under Pressure" (game of the day Mar-11-2008)
New Zealand (1956)
French Defense: Advance Variation. Milner-Barry Gambit (C02)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-28-16  gofer: I "found" 16 Bc5, but just like <Once> and Fritz I was concerned that black would simply exchange off its queen for R+B+2P. I think, given the outcome black was wrong not to take that route, but it obviously doesn't necessarily mean that Bc5 is "wrong", just not as perfect as we might want...
Jul-28-16  scormus: <Once> I went through the same thought processes with 16 Bc5, thinking ... Qf4 17 Qxd5 and 18 Re8 after B moves the Q.

But I also wondered if B could cut his losses but discounted that possibility on the basis that it was a puzzle and I expected a clear cut outcome.

I checked with Rybka which gave the same result as your Fritz. In fact W would have quite a lot of work to win this against good play. It also gave 16 Bd2 as the best move from the start position.

It seems that there is an emotional element in the way players and puzzle solvers alike view positions. But not the silicon ;)

Jul-28-16  jd4chess: Well stockfish thinks Bc5 is a weak move that throws away most of white's advantage, preferring Bd2. I tried Bf4 and Qd5+ but Nd6 holds and black's a piece up.
Jul-28-16  alshatranji: So after 18. Qc5, Black simply capture the bishop with the knight. An unfortunate oversight.
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: In the lang run luck is given only to the efficient.
Jul-28-16  diagonalley: yep... i also thought that black might well accept B+R for his queen
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: This puzzle is busted. Like others, I rejected 16.Bc5 because of 16...Qxc5!
Jul-28-16  BOSTER: My opinion that the best is 16.Bf4.
Jul-28-16  The Kings Domain: Missed this one. I came up with 16) Bf4 and it's mate should black get greedy. Nice and clever mating combo by white.

I wish I could be as complimentary with the pun.

Jul-28-16  WorstPlayerEver: Bit of a curiosity...

16. Bd2 Be7 17. Qa4 a6 18. Bf4 Qb6 19. Bc7 Qc7 20. Rc7 Kc7 21. Rc1 Kb8 22. Bd3 Nd6 23. Qd7 Rc8 24. Rc8 Nc8

Black is in Zugzwang and has no good moves left. For instance: 25. g3 h6 26. Kg2 a5 27. Qe8 Bf6 28. Qf7

Not bad for a Thursday puzzle ;)

Jul-28-16  eblunt: <scormus It seems that there is an emotional element in the way players and puzzle solvers alike view positions. But not the silicon >

The silicon analyses the position at face value, whereas all of us here are looking for the blockbuster move that we are led to believe exists.

Jul-28-16  scormus: <eblunt> ..... or that we lead ourselves to believe exists!
Premium Chessgames Member
  steinitzfan: Somewhere along the line we started calling asymmetric exchanges involving the queen "sacrifices." Why was that? Can we just not deal with the idea of doing without the queen? If nothing else you can expect the computer to take the math literally when a programmer sets up a table of values.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: White needed to chase the black queen away so mate can be given a few moves later.
Jul-28-16  morfishine: Optical Confusion & an illogical if not outright dumb play-on-word
Jul-28-16  posoo: dis is NOT a dum pun Morfudlian. FOULDS did not LOOSE and dat is NOT NESSARY for da pon to work.

Da game is MEARLY showing u wat happens when FOLDS is UNDERPRESSURE.


Also wat hapuned to ur starrs?


Jul-28-16  RandomVisitor: After 15...Nf5, 16.Bd2 is apparently winning, while 16.Bc5 only invites black to play on with 16...Qxc5

click for larger view


<+2.12/40 16.Bd2 Be7 17.Qa4 Qb8 18.Ba6!> Bf6 19.Ba5+ b6 20.Bd2 Re8 21.g4 Nh4 22.Bf4 e5 23.Qa3 Ng6 24.Rc8+ Qxc8 25.Bxc8 Be7 26.Qa4 Rxc8 27.Bxe5 Bd6 28.Bf6+ Ne7 29.Bxe7+ Rxe7 30.Rxe7 Rc1+ 31.Kg2 Kxe7 32.Qxa7+ Bc7 33.Qa3+ Rc5 34.Qe3+ Kf8 35.h3 h5 36.gxh5 d4 37.Qa3 d3 38.Qa8+ Ke7 39.Qe4+ Kf8 40.h6 Rg5+ 41.Kf1 gxh6 42.Qxd3 Rg6 43.Qd4 Kg8 44.Qd7 Bd6 45.Qd8+ Bf8 46.a3 Rc6 47.Qb8

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White has the bishop pair for a bishop, a knight and two pawns.

White would deliver mate if the bishop on e3 and the pawn on e6 disappeared. Therefore, 16.Bc5:

A) 16... Qb8 17.Qxd5+

A.1) 17... exd5 18.Bb6+ and 19.Re8#.

A.2) 17... Bd6 18.Rxe6 fxe6 (due to 19.B(R)xd6) 19.Qxe6

A.2.a) 19... Qc8 20.Bb6+ Bc7 (20... axb6 21.Rxc8+ Rxc8 22.Qd7#) 21.Bxc7+ Qxc7 22.Rxc7 Kxc7 23.Qxf5 + - [Q+B+P vs 2R].

A.2.b) 19... Qc7 20.Qxf5

A.2.b.i) 20... Bxc5 21.Rxc5 wins (21... Qe7 22.Qd5+ and mate next).

A.2.b.ii) 20... Rf8 21.Qd5 looks winning. For example, 21... Rf6 22.Rd1 Ke7 23.Re1+ Kf8 (23... Kd8 24.Re8#) 24.Bc4 Qf7 (24... Rf7 25.Bxd6+ wins) 25.Qxd6+ wins.

A.3) 17... Nd6 18.Bxd6

A.3.a) 18... exd5 19.Re8#.

A.3.b) 18... Bxd6 19.Qe7+ f6 (19... Be7 20.Red1+ Qd6 21.Rxd6#) 20.Qxg7 Rf8 21.Red1+ wins (21... Bd6 22.Qd7#).

A.3.c) 18... Qd6 19.Qf3 looks winning. For example 19... Qb6 (19... Qe7 20.Red1+ wins) 20.Qxf7 Qxb5 (20... Be7 21.Rxe6 wins) 21.Red1+ Qd5 (21... Qd7 22.Rxd7+ Kxd7 23.Rd1+ wins) 22.Rxd5+ exd5 23.Qxd5+ etc.

B) 16... Qf4 17.Qxd5+ looks similar to A.

Jul-28-16  RandomVisitor: A final look, after 15...Nf5:

click for larger view


<+2.32/45 16.Bd2 Be7 17.Qa4 Qb8 18.Ba6!> Nd6 19.Rc2 b5 20.Ba5+ Kd7 21.Qf4 g5 22.Qf3 Re8 23.Qc3 Rc8 24.Bxc8+ Qxc8 25.Qb3 Qb7 26.Rc7+ Qxc7 27.Bxc7 Kxc7 28.Qh3 Kd7 29.Rc1 Bd8 30.Qxh7 Bf6 31.Rc2 Bd4 32.Qd3 Bb6 33.g4 Rh8 34.Kg2 Rh4 35.h3 Rh8 36.Qf3 Ke7 37.Qa3 Kd7 38.Qb4 f6 39.Qb3 Ke7 40.Qa3 Kd7 41.Qb4 Rh4 42.Qc3 Ke7 43.Qa3 Kd7 44.Qg3 Rh8 45.Qf3 Ke7 46.Qd3

Jul-28-16  RandomVisitor: After 16.Bc5 Qxc5 17.Rxc5 Bxc5

click for larger view


<+0.62/44 18.Bd3 Nd6 19.Qd2 h5 20.Qc3 Rc8 21.Qxg7> Kd7 22.h3 h4 23.Qf6 a6 24.Re2 Rh5 25.Rc2 Rc6 26.Kf1 Bb6 27.Qg7 Rxc2 28.Bxc2 Bd8 29.Qg4 Rh8 30.Ba4+ Kc8 31.Qg7 Rh5 32.Qc3+ Bc7 33.Qb4 Rh7 34.Qg4 Bd8 35.Bb3 Kc7 36.Bc2 Rh8 37.Qd4 Rg8 38.Qc5+ Kd7 39.Ba4+ Ke7 40.Qb4 Rh8 41.Qd4 Rh5 42.Qg4 Rh6 43.Qg5+

Jul-29-16  Moszkowski012273: 17.g3... is quite incorrect. The immediate 17.Qxd5+... is much better.
Jul-29-16  RandomVisitor: A final look, after 16.Bc5 Qxc5 17.Rxc5 Bxc5

click for larger view


<+0.57/51 18.Bd3 Nd6 19.Qd2 h5 20.Qc3 Rc8 21.Qxg7> Kd7 22.Qf6 h4 23.h3 a6 24.Re2 Bb6 25.Bc2 Bc5 26.a3 Rh5 27.Kf1 Rc6 28.Bd3 Bb6 29.Rc2 Bd8 30.Qf4 Rxc2 31.Bxc2 Be7 32.Qa4+ Kc8 33.Qd4 Kd8 34.a4 Kd7 35.a5 Kc7 36.Qb4 Kd7 37.Qc3 Kd8 38.b4 Kd7 39.Ba4+ Kd8 40.Qd4 Kc8 41.Bc2 Kd8 42.Bd3 Ke8 43.Qg7 Kd7 44.Qb2 Bd8 45.Qc2

Jul-30-16  Gerry84: Sorry, but how is this game not titled Foulds-Lang, Resign?
Aug-01-16  posoo: OVIOUSLY becos NO ONE RESINED in dis game Gerundo.

Also I CANNOT even tell if u are tokking about

be forgut

or sompon else.

Mar-28-17  clement41: Perhaps 18...Bd6 is a tad more testing, although not only 19 Qxb7 wins, but also the pretty 19 Bxd6 ed 20 Bc7+ Kc8 21 Bf4+ (21 Bb6+ Kb8 22 Bc7+ if white needs to repeat) followed by 22 Bxg5 is

In the game line, 19 Re8+?? would be a catastrophe as after 19...Kc7 there's no decisive discovered check and black is better

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